If you haven’t yet let the politicians hear your voice in support of Jamie and Ali and the remaining children of BRESMA, please do so. It just take a few minutes of your time. Click here to read that post. I’ll be sure to update as I hear any developments. I do know the children are very sick, some much more so than others. For some, time really is of the essence because if they don’t get help soon, they will die.
…………………………
(Luke Ravenstahl, yelling at the media for asking where he was for 22 hours)
Let’s talk about life and death some more because it’s winter, it’s cold, it’s gray and it’s dreary. It fits.
During that which we now respectfully call Snowmageddon, after 10 calls in 30 hours to 911, each more frantic than the last, a 50-year-old Hazelwood man, Curtis Mitchell, died in his home because the paramedics could not reach him due to untreated, snow- and ice-covered streets.
Ambulances were dispatched three times on Saturday, Feb. 6, to the couple’s home in the 5100 block of narrow Chaplain Way, but couldn’t get there because of the snow. Paramedics twice asked whether Mr. Mitchell could walk to an intersection, even after he told them that he could not because he was in too much pain.
Emergency vehicles were within blocks of his home three times — once so close Ms. Edge could see the ambulance lights from her porch — but did not make contact with him. They finally reached the home on Sunday morning, Feb. 7, but Mr. Mitchell was already dead.
“If he wants a ride to the hospital, he is just going to have to come down to the truck,” a medic told the dispatcher. Mr. Mitchell said he would try to walk to the truck, but later told them he couldn’t make it across the bridge.
When it comes to emergency personnel, whether they be police officers, firemen and women, or paramedics, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt when their actions are called into question. I don’t know the kind of pressure they’re under, the fear they have, the mortality they stare in the face every day and how that affects their on-the-job decisions.
However, in this case, I simply asked myself a question. If Curtis was any of these paramedic’s father, would he have died?
If they got a few blocks from the home of their father who was in need of medical care in order to save his life, would they have left? Would they have called their father and said, “Dad, you need to come to me. I’m not coming to you?”
I know if it was my father, I’d have found a way. I wouldn’t have asked him to walk to me. I’d have reached him, put him on a sled and dragged him through the snow for a few blocks back to that ambulance. I’d never, ever, ever have driven away from him to let him die.
Some might say, “Well, how was the paramedic to know just how severe and life-threatening his illness was?” I don’t believe that’s for the paramedics to decide in this instance. They’re emergency responders. They have to approach each case as a valid emergency because if they don’t, things like this happen. I know if my thinking on this is erroneous, that those of you in this field of work can correct me, and believe me, I’m open to that. I’m trying to be fair.
So, while we’re pointing fingers here, we can point fingers at the paramedics, but we must also point a few other fingers where they absolutely should go.
Finger pointed at the Mayor for not doing what he said he would do, which was overhaul the snow-removal system two years ago and would overhaul the 911 system, as well.
Finger pointed at whoever the Mayor delegated that task.
Finger pointed at whoever is the boss-man in charge of snow removal.
Finger pointed at the call center for the way they handled each of the ten calls. As separate instances of pleas for help, instead of as one man begging for help ten times. Perhaps if that wasn’t the case, the paramedics would have tried harder.
You know what? I hate to do this because I have such a reputation for picking on the mayor, but I’m sorry. If you don’t want me to pick your nits, don’t paint a glow-in-the-dark fluorescent target on your bum, Luke. An additional finger is pointed at the Mayor for saying this very awesome, I’m on my horse and I’m in charge, WE GOT THIS kind of soundbite he gave to the media on Feb. 8, the day after Curtis died:
“No matter where you’re at in the city, no matter what your street may look like, if you have an emergency, we will be able to get to it,” he said.
Oh, look! BULLS EYE!
Hey, you guys, if I should meet an untimely end, you know where to start, right? I don’t want to name names, but it rhymes with LEAD ZORD DROBER.
Category: Mayor Ravenstahl, Weather, Yarone Zober | tags: Luke Ravenstahl, Yarone Zober |
February 18, 2010
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PicaU Says:
The question that keeps rolling around in my head is why did someone — the paramedics, 911, Huss, someone — not call public works to get a plow over there and at least move some of the snow so the ambulance could get there?
During the storm, I lost power, and happen to run across the Duquesne Light crew at the end of the road. I asked them why they were just sitting there, and the guy told me that they had been in contact with 911 to get the road plowed so their truck could get down my street to make repairs. The snow was removed and the DL guys made the fix. Seems the same could have been done in Hazelwood.
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Elmer Fudd Says:
Back in 1993, During what became known as the storm of the century, I was working on a ambulance the night of and the morning after this great storm. When the ambulance company learned of the storm, They went into emergency mode and asked for local volunteers to come to the station with snowplow vehicles,(pickups and blazers with plows on them) to assist with the emergency. When we went out on a call to a residence, A plow would follow and if it was not needed on arrival, It was sent back to station and if it was needed, They opened a path to the home so we could get to it. This worked very well. Of course the city has a very high volume of calls so this method would be impractical. However my question is this: The city hired contractors with snowplows to assist them in clearing the streets. WHY was a couple trucks not alloted to the city EMS services for use on a AS NEEDED basis to go out and plow a path to these people? If there were a man would probably still be alive.
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PA Girl in VA Says:
My first thoughts about the Hazlewood incident were right in line with yours, Ginny: If the EMS persons thought for even a moment that a sick man would walk through the snow to their ambulance, WHY THE HELL COULDN’T THESE PEOPLE WALK TO HIM??? This is ineptness, laziness,carelessness (what else????) at its worst. I’d love to hear what they have to say for themselves.
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Nick Says:
Another question that I keep thinking about is, what if this guy didn’t live in Hazelwood? What if he lived in Squirrel Hill or Shadyside? Apparently this man’s life did not seem important enough for emergency responders to have to inconvenience themselves to walk a few blacks to the man’s house. You better believe if it was a doctor or a lawyer in some other neighborhood that they would have made it to the man’s house regardless of road conditions on the first try, and that is just not right.
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kelly c Says:
yea, please don’t forget to point finger at michael huss, also at 7 springs that weekend. the same 7 springs where cell phone reception isn’t reliable. i’ve never heard of anyone working remotely from 7 springs.
i’d bet anything that luke flew back from new orleans once the shit hit the fan.
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mizzpenz Says:
Nick.. you might want to check your spelling. Or maybe not.
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A Says:
Someone needs to investigate how many city employees called in sick that weekend.
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Elmer Fudd Says:
Also this story is far more than a couple lazy assholes riding around in a gut bucket not doing their jobs. There are many checks and balances in place to keep things like this from happening. The 911 center dispatcher knew of this situation.They must report this to the supervisor who is also in the room. He must report it to the center director and if no action, must report to the public safety director. The system FAILED on every level and this stuff does not happen in this day and age. But it did. Every one in the EMS world must be in total amazement that this could happen. This happens in third world countries, not here.
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elysianfantasy Says:
If I were Mr. Mitchell’s family, the next call I’d be making is to a lawyer. I’d be suing the city for wrongful death in a heartbeat! It’s absolutely unacceptable. I’d be after their jobs AND some money for pain and suffering.
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Elmer Fudd Says:
Mitchell’s wife will not need to call an attorney. I am shure by now Edgar Snyder and every attorney within 50 miles is knocking on her door. The 911 tapes PROVE without a dought that this did happen. The only thing in question is the dollar amount of the lawsuit. So much for the millions of dollars the G-20 summit brought to the city.
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red pen mama Says:
On the Monday after the “big snow”, my in-laws, my husband, and I paid a private plow company to plow our 75-foot driveway.
On Wednesday, the township in which I live pushed snow off the street and right into the end of our plowed driveway, conveniently trapping my in-laws, my invalid grandmother-in-law, my husband, me, and our two young children. They plowed the snow RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY CAR, which was parked at the top of the driveway, about 2 feet from the road. They didn’t have to put the snow there; it could have been pushed to the vacant, wooded lot across from where my car was parked — about 10 feet away.
My MIL called the township and gave them hell, adding, “If my mother has an emergency and dies because no one can get here, I’ll be suing you.”
We were lucky because no one did have an emergency. We paid the plow company again the next day to give us access to the road. (We’ll probably have to pay them at least one more time with the way this winter is going.)
This is just a long-winded way of saying: Unacceptable. I hope someone helps this family sue the city. There is no reason that man had to go unassisted like that.
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OldNorthSider Says:
My sympathies to the Mitchell family. This is so sad and so terribly wrong.
The City is so busy trying to figure out how to get money from everyone and their uncle for the “valuable” services they provide that City leaders have failed to recognize that these “invaluable” services have gone to hell in a handbasket.
RIP Curtis Mitchell. I am so sorry your last hours were spent in excrutiating pain waiting for the City to help you while Hizzonner ‘Lil Luke was probably doing shots of jagermeister off of the ice luge.
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Elmer Fudd Says:
And another thing. There were TEN calls made to 911. That means there was more than 1 ambulance crew at fault. There had to be TEN ambulances dispatched over a THREE day period. I do not know what is happening to the City EMS. they always used to have a reputation of being a competent service. However in the past year, Firemen are getting arrested for drugs, DUIs, causing problems at the Rivers Casino, and now this with the ambulance people. Something is happening to create this and maybe this is the real story.
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Baba Wawa Says:
@Elmer Fudd: it’s called apathy…they are learning it from their leader
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BIGGEORGE Says:
they wanted him to walk several blocks to get to the bridge?
Aren’t those trucks 4 wheel drive?
the only bridge I see on google map is E. elisabeth st. If they couldn’t get over the bridge, why didn’t they go Tecumseh and over?
it is pretty flat in that area.If they can’t get there, look out for the rest of Pittsburgh on the hills!!!!
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Pensgirl Says:
Not only is this post right-on, but so are the additional points made in the comments. I want to make one more…I think you didn’t hit the mayor hard enough. Here’s why:
“Finger pointed at whoever the Mayor delegated that task.
Finger pointed at whoever is the boss-man in charge of snow removal.”
You don’t know who is in charge of two things the mayor said he intended to fix. WE don’t know. If the mayor meant what he said about fixing the systems, you would KNOW who he appointed because he would have made a big deal about it. Politicians make a big show of appointments after failures (think Homeland Security after 9/11).
Good leaders actually care about fixing things and appoint task leaders for that reason. Good politicians know that appointing someone to fix a problem at the very least gives them a scapegoat for any future problems – they can say “I assigned Mr. Smith to fix this, and he failed.”
The very fact that you have to write “whoever” means the mayor never actually intended to follow through on his promises, even superficially.
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gunnlino Says:
A newscast indicated that our state of the art 911 system does not link calls from the same address to one another, so apparently one operator was not aware that another operator took a call from the same location ( ie; No history ).
A long time ago I worked in emergency services, even then, before the high speed computers we have today, every call was linked to every other call from a location. Something is very wrong here in the ‘Burgh !
AND the arrogance of the EMS crew wanting the victim to come to them instead of them going to him is unconscionable . -
Elmer Fudd Says:
This story was aired this morning on the Today show so it is now a nationwide story and it put the Burgh in a very poor light. Every time I hear this story I think of the same thing. As much as we bitch and whine about our local hospitals, (myself included) the truth is we are blessed with some of the best hospitals in the WORLD right here in the burgh. People come from the world over to receive care here. Ans this man DIED in THE VERY SHADOW OF THOSE SAME HOSPITALS BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD COME GET HIM! That to me is a crime.
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Scott Says:
I agree with the others who have said, and suggested, that Mrs. Mitchell sue the living pants off of the city. In this case, it is entirely justified and in no way even comes close to replacing this poor woman’s loss. I feel terribly for her.
On a side note, couple of posts here about road crews plowing snow in front of your driveway. Where, exactly, do you expect them to plow the snow? Should they be expected to stop every 50 feet and neatly tidy up the end of each resident’s driveway? Clearing the slushy, heavy mess at the street edge of your driveway is part of the deal. Once you’ve cleared it the first time, take an extra few minutes to remove the snow on the left side of the driveway and you won’t be plowed in again. If a house full of family cannot find one or two able-bodied folks among the group to spend 10 minutes clearing plow flotsam, perhaps you should apply for a meter reader job with the city. I hear they are exempt from shoveling.
There are a lot of fingers being pointed re: Snowmaggedon, and most of them justifiably. However, take it easy on the plow drivers. In my community, they were on point for about 5 days straight with no real breaks and probably zero sleep. I always say a quiet thanks when I see those flashing yellow lights reflecting on the bedroom wall in the middle of the night. You should too.
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Kathy Says:
Part of the problem, and one that every public safety person has been aware of for some time, is that the 911 system, now consolidated into the COUNTY 911 system, is a complete failure. Previously there were individual 911 centers staffed by operators familiar with their local centers of operation, who then contacted local police, fire and EMS crews. Now, all 911 calls go into the only 911 center run by the COUNTY. I challenge you to get a scanner and spend 5 minutes listening to the calls, and you will soon learn what a debacle the entire system is. So I would add Dan Onorato to your list of who can share the blame on this one.
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Sooska Says:
Just a pathetic example of the frat house being run downtown. Look back at all the incidents over the last 4 years. clearly there is no real leadership or accountability. This time it directly caused a death. What negligence. After dithering and saying they were reacting, they finally had to call out the Guard to help. Still, it took the city a week to plow my son’s small side street in Squirrel Hill and, nearly 2 weeks later, it still can’t really be called “passable.” The City under Ravenstahl is disgraceful.
@redpenmama- Municipalities are only responsible for clearing public streets and roadways. Municipal plows cannot stop at each driveway to dump the snow load off the plow. That would leave snow in the road and they’d have to spend time plowing access to private property. Imagine how much longer road clearing would take then. It is up to the property owner to provide access off public roads.
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toni Says:
How appropro that Lukey stated “if you have an emergency, we will be able to get to it” when half the city, including the media couldn’t find his butt for what? 22 hours.
Maybe this was one of the reasons the media was hot on his tail. So point another finger Virginia…because this Mayor NEEDS to let people know when he’s going AWOL intead of being a petulant child.
I used to be a respiratory therapist, and as such that meant I was a first responder. Unfortunately, yes, there are some hospital personnel that respond the way that paramedic did…but the vast majority do NOT. We cared, we loved our patients and we went above and beyod the call of duty many times in many ways that are largely unknown to any. As a past medical personnel I am appalled at the callous view this paramedic expressed. Our motto usually is ” this is not going to happen on my watch” and we fight like hell to beat sometimes unbeatable odds. I have too many stories I could give you to prove this…they never make news….only the occasinal cold hearted idiot does.
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Monty Says:
I know this is a serious post, but MizzPenz, that was funny.
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Joe K. Says:
I never worked EMS so I refrain from judging, but wow that just sounds bad to say ‘he’ll have to walk here.’
The city has the government it deserves.
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jf Says:
What happened to this man and this family is a tragedy, there is no doubt about that. However, there may be another side to this story. Everyone seems to be assuming that everyone who calls 911 for an ambulance is actually having an emergency …. I used to live across the street from an elderly couple who had no family locally. They would call 911 for an ambulance 3+ times a week. This was not in the City, but a very nearby suburb, and the first responder was the fire company – so 3 or more times per week the Fire truck and at least one ambulance (often times more than 1) was dispatched to this same residence. Most times no one was transported to the hospital and when someone was, they were usually turned around without admission and sent back. As I watched this unfold over a period of months (yes the fire truck and ambulance(s) making a trip to our street 3+ nights per week for months – it got so that my dogs didn’t even bark anymore when they heard the noise) all I could think was – there has to be a better more cost effective way for these people to get some much needed attention ….
Look, I know this won’t be a popular opinion, and there is absolutely no way for us to know this person’s history or if it applies, but we have no idea how many calls EMS took and how many of them were false alarms. We don’t know if, while an ambulance was trying to get up this street, they were also being summoned to 5 more houses (with various levels of “emergency”). People call 911 for a lot of reasons – and with 2 feet of snow there had to be people panicking all over the place. It can’t be an easy job to sort through the calls and prioritize. And the 10 calls very well could have made this appear to be less of a “true” emergency than more of one – especially when I am quite sure that there are people who call 911 10 times a week …. or 10 times a day … all I am saying is that if there were 2 feet of snow and my former neighbors were calling 911 (probably for the 3rd time that week) I wouldn’t have blamed EMS if they put them at the back of the line ….
And you are probably right Nick, this probably wouldn’t have happened to a guy in Squirrel Hill or Shadyside – but chances are that “doctor” or “lawyer” would have a back up plan and transportation and a support system so that it wouldn’t happen even if EMS screwed up …. heaven forbid that people actually take responsibility for themselves and not exclusively look to the government to take care of them …..
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Elmer Fudd Says:
Under no circumstance do you let a person walk to you. If he could do you think he would be the one calling you? A walk through snow w/chest pains = heart attack. And yes Toni you are right. I too have seen things in the field with my own eyes that people would not believe. There are very professional people out there who do amazing things, and there are some that need thrown in jail.
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Elmer Fudd Says:
So jf, You are saying if your house caught on fire, It would be ok if the fire department waited until they could see the flames from the fire house before they rolled the truck? Hey, makes sense to me.
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frog nails Says:
Basically, you have to be connected to be taken care of in this sort of situation. I called my city-councilperson after 3 days of no attention to my street, and the plow was there 15 MINUTES LATER. Maybe this guy didn’t know his representative. Maybe he didn’t have neighbors who were willing to help. Maybe his partner was too scared to leave his side and come up with another plan. I’m sure they thought that help was on the way. What a horrible way to die.
HUSS SHOULD BE FIRED. It’s one thing for the mayor to be skiing when all of this happened, but quite another for the PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR to leave town to party when the city is in a state of emergency.
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PittinDC Says:
Even if this family sues, it will be settled immediately. Not only would it be horrible for the city to see this go to court, but it would be horrible for the family. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the city has already offered at least some monetary compensation in light of the tragedy. Not saying that would help any, but I am sure that the city feels badly about how this situation was handled.
However, this situation is not a Pittsburgh issue… it happens in every major city. Something similar happened a few years back in DC to a rich man.. when there was no snow on the ground. So, crappy things happen to people of all walks of life soemtimes. Unfortunately, the system often breaks down. The fact that there was snow on the ground certainly could not have helped. Nevertheless, hopefully the city will learn from this situation and correct the errors.
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jf Says:
No Elmer (or is that Mr. Fudd) – but the fact of the matter is that these are human beings who have to make judgment calls …. and unfortunately there are people who use EMS as a babysitter … or a taxi service ….
And if my house caught on fire I have a plan to get myself and my family out … I guess if your house catches on fire you are going to burn alive waiting for someone to come rescue you??
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SOP Says:
From what I can tell, the EMS response was consistent with standard operating procedure of this administration and the example of its, er, “leaders”:
1. No duty to show up for work at all;
2. If you do decide to show up for work, do whatever you wish while on the taxpayer’s dime – for example, feel free to go to Steelers training camp, stalk golfers or play hide ‘n seek;
3. If someone tries to explain your responsibilities to you, just ignore them or say “nuh-uh!”
4. If someone tries to explain to you that you are answerable to the voters, ignore them UNTIL the next primary electionSeriously, when the behavior at the top is this “professional”, what do you expect from subordinates?
It’s understandable that people who have the luxury of working in positions whose job descriptions do not include oversight of public safety would decide to spend the weekend holed up in 7 Springs – you see, Lukey and Mikey fancy themselves as falling into this category. Mikey is responsible for the promotion of at least 2 domestic abusers in the police department and the odd proliferation of substance abuse incidents in the fire department has occurred under Mikey’s watch (not to mention his incredible failure to implement a drug testing policy within the fire department) – he’s also responsible for spending millions of our tax dollars to combat the G-20 gnat with the force of an atom bomb – so why on earth would anyone expect either this dimwit or Lukey to approach the obvious dangers occasioned by snowmageddon with a hint of wisdom beyond that of a 4 year-old making snow angels in the back yard? A note to city employees: despite Lukey and Mikey’s dismal performance, be on guard – don’t think for a second that your butt won’t be thrown under the nearest bus if it behooves your “do as I say not as I do” leadership. A note to the media: why aren’t you asking the ethics folks why they haven’t initiated an investigation into whether Lukey paid full fare for his weekend stay at 7 springs? Also, if Lukey was indeed meeting/playing hide ‘n seek with Mikey during his 22 hour absence, why didn’t Mikey slide the emergency legislation across the table for Lukey to sign???
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SpudMom Says:
Bravo, SOP. Important questions, all.
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Erin Says:
jf,
I do agree with you re: people who abuse the 911 system. I got all fired up when Richard Poplawski’s mom called &*#$#* 911 because she was fighting with her son. I can’t stand to see that, and I’ve had family members do the same thing. And I agree that a 911 operator might see someone who calls 10 times as a service abuser instead of someone desperately in need of help.
However, that is not the point here. The ambulance did eventually come to Mitchell’s house; 3 times in fact. If they’d been able to get to his house one of those 3 times, he’d likely still be alive.
Ease up on your judgment of the Mitchells not having any other way to get to the hospital. We don’t know much else about their situation – it would be wrong to judge them under normal circumstances, but is especially misguided given what the roads were like that weekend. They very well may not have been able to drive.
I am all for personal responsibility, too. But until your house does catch fire, God forbid, you have NO idea how you would act. That’s why it is just so wrong to sit here and judge. -
cathy Says:
@PicaU — let us not forget that this was the excuse given by the mayors office a week ago Monday as to why the street where not clear… all of the public works people where out helping the paramedics, fire and police on emergency calls… What a bunch of lies… I hope the media asks the questions about this in light of this situation.
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paparamedic Says:
I am a paramedic, though not in the city, and I want to make a quick comment. I want to clarify one thing about ambulances in the snow–they suck! Really, there is no better way to put it. Most are not 4 wheel drive, and we rely on chains for traction. They are, for lack of a better description, giant sleds.
Part of the problem with Friday’s storm was the depth of the snow. The ambulances have a relatively low clearance and many of us were just pushing the deep snow in front of us until we got stuck. It was occurring everywhere.
Having said that, the other event taking place across the area, was that crews were walking to homes they couldn’t get to by ambulance. Many paramedics and EMTs were leaving trucks to get out and WALK to people they couldn’t reach otherwise-some a lot further than a few blocks! Crews were also utilizing 4wd response units to get to people and bring them to ambulances that couldn’t reach them. This happened over and over and over again. WHY the city crew didn’t get out and walk to this man’s house to assess him is incomprehensible. -
jf Says:
Erin:
If you read my post I clearly state that there is no way at this point to know what the true situation was with the Mitchells – or if my observations apply (they may not). I certainly am not judging them – but it does seem that many people (including the media) are quick to judge just about everyone else – the Mayor, the EMS dispatchers, the EMS workers – without knowing the entire story. I could be wrong, but it seems like it would be out of character for an EMS worker to sit in his/her truck within a block of someone and not try to get to them ….but, of course, the media wouldn’t report half truths ….
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Elmer Fudd Says:
No jf you miss the point. When a call goes out you respond. Period. You do not know what it is until you get there. That call that seems like nothing can end up being a life threatening situation. And yes I am going to call the fire department and get out of my house if it catches fire and let the people with the experiance and the million dollars worth of equipment put it out. And when they are done they can go to you place and recover your burned body with the garden house in your hand.
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Scott Says:
With everyone agreeing this is tragic, the whole discussion of the legality is sort of pointless without knowing specifically what the city’s obligations are for providing emergency services. Any lawyer-types here know what those are?
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Bojack Says:
@Erin-
You got upset at Poplawski’s Mom???
That’s EXACTLY what 911 is for!!!! Domestic violence, especially escalating!
What’s UNFORGIVABLE and what was promised to be “fixed” was that she TOLD 911 her son was armed and dangerous, and the
incompetent dispatcher didn’t think it was imporatnt enough to tell the police dept!!Result? 3 dead officers, and now, a year later, another unnecessary death!!
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Erin Says:
jf,
I did read your post and I think you are judging them: “but chances are that “doctor” or “lawyer” would have a back up plan and transportation and a support system so that it wouldn’t happen even if EMS screwed up …. heaven forbid that people actually take responsibility for themselves and not exclusively look to the government to take care of them …”
How is that not judging the Mitchell’s transportation situation?
We have a quote from an EMS worker that, so far, no one has come out to refute. And just the wording in that quote about “want[ing] a ride to the hospital” smacks of dismissal of the severity of the situation. I can absolutely see the stress of that night causing the EMS worker to turn away Mr. Mitchell.
I do not believe everything the media says, and we all know there are two sides to every story, but come on. Michael Huss himself is verifying this story. -
John Says:
Put snowplows on the ambulances!!
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lawyer-type Says:
The government generally has no duty to provide EMS services and is even immune from providing “negligent” EMS services. However, an extremely creative lawyer may be able to spin a claim that Mitchell was deprived of his civil rights due to something called a “state/government-created danger”. It’s no task for Joe Schmoe, Esquire – and it’s a long-shot – Just adding to the tragedy of it all – and emphasizing the point that voters really need to stop this “give the kid a chance” nonsense. The reason all of Luke’s so-called missteps were so much more critical than grandma and the media believed/portrayed upon his ascendancy is because they were the dots that should have been connected to give insight into the complete incompetent he obviously was from the get-go. He didn’t become an idiot last week, he always was, and we always had the proof, people just didn’t care and didn’t make the leap from “if he’s so green that I feel compelled to refer to him as a “kid” and I feel obligated to give him another chance”, why don’t I consider the ramifications of his lack of character, maturity, sincerity, experience, follow-through, professionalism, yada-yada within the context of something so critical as public safety? Do people now understand why it was a horrible choice for this kid to take a homeland security vehicle to a Toby Keith concert? What if, instead of snow, Pittsburgh was the victim of some dreadful terrorist attack, i.e. the reason you have the d*mn vehicle in the first place? “How do you like him now?”
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Bojack Says:
@Erin-
Are you truly this stupid??
Maybe you can work at the 911 call center!
Know any city/county Dems??
Try me Elmer!
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Scott Says:
Lawyer-type,
So does that mean that they have no legal claim related to this incident?
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Elmer Fudd Says:
Lawyer type, If the city has no duty to provide services, How can they collect and use tax money for this purpose?
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Erin Says:
Sorry, Bojack – what exactly am I saying that you see as so “stupid”?
And yes, I think Poplawski’s mom abused the system. They got into an argument and she wanted him to leave. She was not in a panic when she called 911. He was not threatening her with guns. She wanted help getting him to leave the house. She could have left. That is not a reason to call 911. -
toni Says:
Lawyertype…while yes, some citizens want to give “the kid” a chance I blame the unions for his getting re-elected. The rank and file ( police, fire, Port Authority, etc) get all their dues payers to vote en masse for their man in return for sweet heart deals. Please tell me it didn’t escape your notice that 3 days after election Lukey was trotting out a tuition tax to benefit unions and shore up their benefit packages.
Unions make up what? 20% of the city? But they hold the 80% of non-union citizens hostages between the catering of politicians and the numbr of votes their ranks command. Hence the Democrat love affair that has all about destroyed fair governance in this city.
As for paramedics and first responders…Keith was a student with me in respiratory school and a fellow worker at Children’s…this is the vast majority of the workers and teir care that I know:
http://www.post-gazette.com/localnews/20030225babycrash0225p1.asp
The paramedic and Huss should both be fired for this man’s death.
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lawyer-type Says:
It means they have to be extremely creative, cross their fingers and hope that they find themselves in front of the right judge who will be open to such creativity, i.e. there’s always a chance, but in this case, the chance is quite slim.
Authority to tax is different from the liability analysis. First, there has to be a recognized legal basis (usually a statute) for a claim against any defendant. For example, Ginny can’t just sue the city because she hates pigeons. There has to be a statute or some legal obligation that requires the city to protect her from pigeons.
Now, even if such a basis exists, governments may still be protected from liability that you and I would otherwise be subject to based on a variety of statutes that provide different types of immunity. So, the city can collect taxes and spend the money on EMS services, but it will be protected from liability under various circumstances based on immunity that the government or courts have seen fit to extend – mostly out of concern that if you expose the government to liability for everything it does, you will certainly bankrupt it. It’s not a question of what is fair, because this result is obviously not fair in this type of case, it’s a question of whether immunity will apply here. Frankly, with this administration, city taxpayers should thank their lucky stars that the city is immune from liability for their incredible ineptitude.
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Self-indulgent-stahl Says:
It is very clear. LR is more interested in drinking and picking up women than running the city. The city gets crushed by the biggest blizzard in years and he is out drinking with the PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR?!?
And then, when it is clear that the storm is getting worse, Does he decide to return and take care of his responsibilities? No. He decides to stay in a developer’s condo.
Are you effing kidding me?
Finally, after Mr. Mitchell dies because his administration’s failure, he has the nerve to yell at the media for asking questions? If anything, the media should be turning up the heat on this guy. He has repeatedly displayed the behaviors of a self-centered incompetent adolescent. Pittsburgh deserves better.
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Joe K. Says:
If Pittsburgh deserves better it should act like it and look beyond the “D” on voting day.
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lawyer-type Says:
toni – I agree with you that unions certainly shoulder part of the blame based on the fact that their support is based solely on the extent to which this administration would benefit their coffers; I also agree that regardless of liability, if it’s determined that the paramedics and 911 operators did what we suspect they did, i.e. they were simply lazy, those who were found to be lazy should be fired. I also think that there should be some type of internal review to determine whether Huss and the Public Works director should also be fired, but that wiill never happen because both are Luke’s drinking buddies. – and even if there is an internal review, with this administration, they will publish a pretty report, with pretty recommendations and there will be no follow-thru whatsoever. The beat goes on, and at this point, the only ones who can even attempt to turn the tide are the media (who have really given this kid a pass from day one – imagine if ANY other politician engaged in this kind of behavior?), city council (Peduto and Rudiak seem to be the only one who are interested for the right reasons and have the guts to do their jobs) and, most importantly, the voters. The unions supported the kid, yes, and they carry much of the vote in this town, yes. So, I guess this is my long-winded way of saying I agree with you.
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Elmer Fudd Says:
lawyer type: thanks for the explanation. The other thing is in order for the ambulances to operate they must be liscensed through the state EMA called emmco. Do you think they could lose this liscense to operate because of this? http://www.emmco.org/
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butcher's dog Says:
I remember the Poplawski story as Erin relates it in post #46. His mom’s call to 911 was something along the lines of “I want him to leave and he won’t. Please come and evict him.” The operator asked her if there were guns on the premises and she said there were. It was not, at least as reported, that mom volunteered that he was armed and dangerous.
Having said that, the lack of info about the presence of firearms was inexcusable.
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Bram R Says:
This is just too depressing. I’m not surprised everybody’s getting angry just thinking about this, but the GALL of someone to fail and embarrass himself on so many seperate levels, then waste his time turning around to yell at the MEDIA for asking questions (NOT for publishing one word mind you, for asking questions!) and to keep distracting and spinning and lying…
It’s unfortunate that it’s easier for those who DO actually have political power and influence in the city (the Democratic party committee, the labor unions, the corporate community) to just keep soaking in the Mayor’s grease / attention / special favors only because he is Mayor and that’s what you do to prosper, than it is to select someone with drive and comittment and conscience and competence. It should be so easy, but no, everybody’s working their own angles and rationalizing why it’s better for them to support this petulant fool and his arrogant, self-deluded little clique. The best we can hope for is that sometime soon he gets caught doing something so awful we can finally be rid of him, I just hope no one else has to die to force that issue.
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toni Says:
Hey Ginny I vote your for president of a group called ( loosely) UNUP. The Union of Non-Union Peoples. We pay no dues, no meetings, and the only perk is fair government. Our only job is to turn out en masse once every 4 years and kicked incomeptency to the curb…namely the playboy Mayor and his buds. I don’t care if we vote Democrat ( other than Lukey) or Republican as long as we get COMPETENCY in.
I’d love to get this Mayor recalled but that would require city Council to vote his sorry butt out. No way would that group do anything to help with that…not after they voted to get the fair salary pushed thru for union employees that work in the city.
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Roxanne S. Says:
Toni, your anti-union rhetoric is astounding! I haven’t looked too closely at your posts but a couple things stand out, just want to clarify for you.
a) it’s a myth that union rank-n-file all line up behind their union’s candidate. Only the unions that put work into political campaigns can claim any success at that. of course those of us who are progressive and pro-union see that potential, that unions are potential powerful political allies precisely because they have so many members.
b) Port Authority workers are not city employees and most don’t live in the city so why you’re lumping them in with “union workers who are responsible for Ravenstahl being elected” makes no sense
c) when you mention the vote for “fair salary” legislation are you talking about the prevailing wage bill that council just passed? if so, you’re confused– it will not effect any current union members and secondly it will only be applied to BIG DEVELOPMENTS (a la Bakery Square) where the developers have gotten BIG public handouts. It’s just fair public policy.Carry on.
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Self-indulgent-stahl Says:
interesting kdka story
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Steverino Says:
Looks like Lil’ Lukie loves to have his lil’ groupie chicks around at all times! What an embarassment he is. He acts like he’s still a frat boy in college. Did they play beer pong that night at Seven Springs, too?
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mizzpenz Says:
@monty…. I truly didn’t mean it to be funny. I just thought it was an interesting “slip of a vowel” in Nick’s post. Or was it? This was the one thing that made me go.. Hmmmmmmm.
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Pay to Play Says:
If, as the mayor claims, he paid the developer to stay in the condo and he didn’t get anything of value, then why not stay in another condo?
There are hundreds condos and hotel rooms up at 7 springs. It just so happens that the only condo available that weekend is owned by a developer who is looking to get money from the city?
Does Ethics-stahl really think people are going to buy that?
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unsatisfied Says:
I remember when lukey took over as mayor after the late, great bob o’connor’s passing.
my first reaction: who the hell is he?
my second reaction: wow, he’s 26?!? interesting. it’d be nice to have some new, young blood in the mayor’s office for once. someone with some energy. someone who could possibly incent some of our young talent to actually stick around after graduation. someone who’d be in tune with new technology and help to bring 1000′s of those jobs to get us finally on board with the “well, we used to do steel, but now, we do tech” image that we’ve been trying to fulfill. someone who’d be into cutting the crap that passes for politics and get some positivity done in this wonderful city of ours.
my latest reaction: meet the new boss. same as the old boss.
*sigh*
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KGC Says:
@paparamedic – A difference of opinion. You said “WHY the city crew didn’t get out and walk to this man’s house to assess him is incomprehensible.” You should have said “WHY the city crew didn’t get out and walk to this man’s house to assess him is INDEFENSIBLE.”
@lawyer-type – You said “if ANY other politician engaged in this kind of behavior?” Let me expound on this.. “if ANY other politician, especially an evil nasty REPUBLICAN, engaged in this kind of behavior?”
@Roxanne S. – Please go back to your Union activities on Company time. That is all.
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Mandy Says:
I’m not sure if this has been mentioned or not yet, but I think we need to back-off the paramedics.
Each time they were called, they responded that they were stuck , they asked for 4wd & even began shoveling. When they reported that, each time the call was canceled by the family. 3 calls, 3 times they canceled it and said it wasn’t necessary – including the 3rd time when he was sleeping and the girlfriend didn’t want to wake him. Obviously, this is a tragedy, but I think we should all back off blaming the paramedics. -
Bojack Says:
@Erin, @ButchersDog-
OK kiddies, domestic disturbances ARE legitimate 911, police calls which require a response by officers!
That is exactly what happened!http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_619564.html
The Tribune-Review
Tuesday, April 7, 2009Dispatcher didn’t tell slain city officers about guns
A 911 dispatcher didn’t tell Pittsburgh police officers who were gunned down while responding to a domestic incident at a Stanton Heights home that a man inside had weapons.“It was a terrible omission,” said Bob Full, the Allegheny County chief of emergency services. “It should have been added to the call. The dispatch should have gone out as a domestic between mother and son and there are guns in the house.
“It was human error.”
Richard Poplawski’s mother told the 911 call-taker that her son had weapons, but the call-taker failed to relay the information to the dispatcher.
“It was a mistake,” Full said. “It should have been included in original dispatch.”
Poplawski, 22, is accused of using an assault rifle to fatally shoot three city police officers — Paul J. Sciullo II, Stephen J. Mayhle and Eric G. Kelly. He was arraigned on charges including homicide, attempted homicide, aggravated assault and reckless endangerment, and is being held at the Allegheny County Jail.
Pittsburgh police Chief Nate Harper told the Trib this morning that his department was reviewing the 911 tapes.
“At the current time, I’m more concerned the officers have a proper send-off,” Harper said.
He declined further comment.
Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen A. Zappala Jr. said prosecutors will listen to the 911 tapes as part of their investigation.
“Any time there’s a 911 call of a domestic component, there’s always a question about weapons,” Zappala said. “As part of any investigation, the 911 tapes are pulled, but yes the 911 tapes (in the Poplawski investigation) are obtained and preserved.”
Zappala declined to discuss details of an interview investigators had with county 911 personnel.
Full said the dispatcher joined the call center in November, and has been placed on administrative leave.
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Jen Says:
When I was an undergrad at Ohio State they had a similar sitution. Terel Tinsley, a kid in the dorms, was so sick his friends and his RA called 911 three times over two days. Two of those times, the paramedics came out, but told him he needed to walk because they weren’t going to carry him. He insisted he was too sick to walk, so they left. The third time they carried him, but he died three hours after he reached the hospital from a severe case of bacterial meningitis. So yeah, a kid living on a campus with the best hospital system in Columbus died because the paramedics wanted him to walk.
In that case, the review board determined the paramedics “had exhibited ‘poor judgment’ but had followed standard department protocol.” I suspect the paramedics in Mr. Mitchell’s case will receive a similar wrist-slap, as well.
I really hope Pitsburghers wake up and hold city leadership accountable for the whole snowmageddon debacle, but I won’t hold my breath.
http://www.thelantern.com/2.1345/report-clears-paramedics-in-osu-student-s-death-1.108578
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Elmer Fudd Says:
Now they are reporting a second case during the storm. This one a 11 month old infant on the north side with a heart condition. the crew asked the mother to bring the child up the hill on foot, she told them there was other children in the house and could not leave them. So instead of coming on foot to the house, they left. The mother had to dig the car out and take the kid to Children’s herself.
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Lawyer2 Says:
@lawyer-type
What law school did you go to? This is clear cut wrongful death. Those EMS responders had a duty to help this man by virtue of the fact that they were employed to help people who need medical attention. While they are immune from liability if they make a mistake during their care, they are not immune from action because of their negligence. Read your law books.
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BethH Says:
I am guessing that Mr. Mitchell lived “below the tracks,” where my grandfather grew up. It’s hard enough getting medics there in good weather, as the “you’re using us as a jitney” thought is rampant no matter the weather. And a fire station is just up the street, across second avenue. It is unfathomable this happened. As I said in another post, this sort of arrogance and lack of accountability comes from the top. Why would these ems workers go the extra mile when their bosses weren’t even in town?
And, as a lawyer, I am sure there are enough ways to get a suit past POs. And I am also sure the city has insurance for this. At the very least Ms. Edge deserves to live the rest of her life comfortably and somewhere she can trust that medics will be able to get to her even in snow — like maybe near the ravenstahl house. He had to be “out and about,” remember?
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toni Says:
Roxanne S…Im astonished that you find me astonishing. Actually if you knew me at all you’d know I’m a centralist and don’t particularly hate unions per se. I believe in live and let live.
My ire with unions began when you boobs kept Tom Murphy in as Mayor. A Mayor that brought a city to its knees and let’s not even get into Act 47. Tom Murphy who should have had criminal charges pressed against him when the head of the fireman’s union ( King) started running his mouth talking about the backdoor wheeling and dealing that was done to insure Murphy got back in office.
I include Port Authority, even tho it is county and not city, because Lukey ( city) wants to tax us to benefit them.
So pat yourself on the back again union because once again your masses pushed a lever in November that let party boy back in the door.
Let’s face it Roxie…you don’t give a damn about me and my family…that I might have to pay a tuition tax…just so long as you keep those 6 weeks paid vaca and your $25.00 an hour and god forbid, not have to shovel around the meter your reading.
So do the 80% of us non-unions a favor for once…next time you go to put your boy in office…pick someone that has some decency and competency…then I won’t pick on you and hurt your prounion feelings. If a competent mayor who gave a damn about the city were in charge then Curtis Mitchell might not be dead ( read Lukey empty promises..ie 911 overhaul) and could thank you too.
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Elmer Fudd Says:
Oh, and here is a link to the story. http://www.wpxi.com/news/22604262/detail.html
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JMC Says:
And Sophie’s review of his performance: http://www.wpxi.com/news/22604125/detail.html
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lawyer- type Says:
Lawyers: see 42 Pa.C.S. 8541 et seq – the only way you survive po’s in a tort case against the city is if you show that one of the exceptions apply (they don’) or if you can show willful misconduct by paramedics (short of criminal behavior – no) or you concoct a very creative civil rights claim. And no, the city doesn’t have insurance for this (try a rtk request – no policy). You can borrow my lawbooks if you want, kid.
Btw – people file lawsuits based on far flimsier grounds, so more power to the Mitchells- maybe the next mayor with a conscience will write a check.
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Better Gvmt Says:
Mayor Ravenstahl has become an embarrassment to our city. Apart from his lack of accessibility, poor forward planning, including but certainly not limited to snow plowing, apparent “coziness” with certain businessmen that will expect something in return for their support and accommodations, lack of common sense in attempting to tax students, etc. etc., his recent testiness to reporters (underwear, socks) speaks to his overall lack of class.
Luke, time to be gone – voluntarily or otherwise!
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William Tweed Says:
With respect, while it seems reasonably clear that various unions are part of the Pittsburgh political machine, it is not true that they have the numbers to control the outcome of a general election. Mayor Ravenstahl defeated John DeSantis by 19,500 votes. I don’t know the number of city-related union members, but I know it way less than that. Union support is obviously very important in competitive primary elections, thus Mayor Murphy’s unseemly courting of the firemen’s union.
The bigger problem runs deeper than union influence (if one believes that is a problem). In the Ravenstahl-DeSantis election, more people simply voted straight Democratic Party ticket than voted for DeSantis. They could not be bothered to vote candidate-by-candidate or race-by-race; they just touched the screen once and voted for every Democrat. To me, this is both mindless and lazy and one of our great problems. But I don’t know what can be done about it.
For the record, I am fairly liberal, but I almost always vote against candidates for city office who are endorsed by the Democratic Party. Pittsburgh has the resources to be a great city, but will not be until our version of Tammany Hall is gone. I am not hopeful.
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Political Party Pooper Says:
Dear Virginia,
I am sorry to say that my Marquette Warriors are hosting your Pittsburgh Panthers this evening. What do you call a host who treats their guest as rudely as Marquette will treat Pittsburgh tonight, with their fifteen point ass-whupping about to commence?
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Sexy Jesus Says:
A quick read of the Pittsburgh City Code indicates that it only takes 20 city voters to petition a Court of Common Pleas judge for the Mayor’s impeachment (Sect. 807). Section 806 sets forth the grounds for impeach as “mental incapacity, incompetency, neglect of duty malfeasance, mismanagement or for any corrupt act or practice.” I honestly don’t see which ones would NOT apply. City residents (fortunately, I live in Edgewood), get to work!
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Dave Says:
First allow me to clearly state that I am not here to defend the EMTs or Paramedics who responded to the Mitchell home. The fact is that Pittsburgh EMS failed Mr. Mitchell. With that said I’d like to make three points about the story that, as an EMT and an Emergency Manager, I feel the need to
First the issue regarding the ambulance asking the patient to meet them at an intersection. This is not an uncommon practice during severe weather for a few reasons. Ambulances, traditionally, are two wheel drive vehicles and more often than not have very poor traction in the snow. One of the first thing Responders operating under any circumstances learn is safety for self and then their patients. What good does an EMT do for their patient if they themselves become one? There are a number of agencies that have operating guidelines prohibiting responders from traversing anything more than 1000 feet or a city block to reach the location of a patient under such circumstances. While I admit I do not know the Pittsburgh EMS guidelines for these conditions, it is not an unreasonable guideline seeing as how a two man crew carrying a patient through deep snow for any distance greater than that places them and the patient at greater risk for injury.
Secondly, there seems to be this notion that the responders could have treated and saved Mr. Mitchell’s life by simply getting to him. Let’s be honest, this came in as abdominal pains where the standing protocol is usually along the lines of oxygen, vital signs, transport. There isn’t really anything EMTs or Paramedics could do on the scene for an abdominal pain so the patient was going to have to go to the hospital.
Finally, while I readily admit that Pittsburgh EMS failed the patient, where were the police, the fire department, or DOT for snow removal? It seems as if Pittsburgh EMS was left unaided on a day that saw triple the usual call volume, with longer turn around times, and hazardous operating conditions. This is not a model for effectiveness or efficiency in any 911 system. Yes, Pittsburgh EMS failed the patient, but ultimately the system the City of Pittsburgh has in place failed Pittsburgh EMS. The real question of course is if you want the system to improve to golden standards, are you willing to pay for it?
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SpudMom Says:
Dave, you ask if I’m willing to pay for it. Well, let me say that I was a city resident for several years and I moved out to the ‘burbs for a lot of reasons. But a city of the size of Pittsburgh that has a municipal tax rate among the highest in the country should have the money to DO THE DAMN JOB.
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Mia` Says:
I’m so torn on this issue…I can’t make an educated opinion because I do not have all the facts….what I do know…emergency responders were busy as hell those few days.
I live outside of the city, about an hour or so south…my honey is a volunteer fire fighter and they were basically out from 9 Friday night until…Tues? Wed?? The ambulance service was sooooo backed up with calls that they did respond or assist on a lot of the ambulance calls as well as being dispatched for accidents, downed trees, downed lines….it was insane. A lot of the calls were from elderly who lost power and couldn’t get to warming shelters so they called for an ambulance to get to the hospital instead. I have to assume that Pittsburgh residents did the same thing. So, if everyone involved was looking at this as another case of someone just wanting to get out of the house and somewhere with power….then I can understand the you’ll have to come to us comment…mostly. That they assumed this was the case and didn’t verify…that I see as a huge problem.
Our streets were horrid … heck my street still has 4-5 inches of ice on it…I’ve seen a plow once since the snow started. The neighborhood has mostly shoveled it ourselves. There was one ambulance call….I don’t recall which day it was…Sat or Sun…paramedics could not get to the house…they could only get a few blocks away. They called the firedepartment for help. We have several fire fighters with quads and snowmobiles and they were responding with those instead of their vehicles. They were able to place the woman on a board (plastic boat like thing) and pull the woman behind one of the quads with other fire fighters following behind to keep the board from sliding out or flipping over. They drug her the few blocks to the ambulance. I don’t suppose there are too many in the city with quads and snowmobiles at their homes though.
I can understand the pressure they were under, I can understand how after so many calls for “rides” that you can begin to assume that’s the case for anyone without power (did they have power? I’m not even sure about that) is another case of just wanting a ride. That everyone involved assumed….that I am having a very hard time with.
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Elmer Fudd Says:
Dave, for one thing there was something this crew could have done. THEY COULD HAVE WALKED THROUGH THE SNOW AND ASSESSED THE DAMN PATIENT. They did not know what they had until they did that. and if they thought the patient could come to them, then they could damn well go to the patient. Out here in the country, We have gone a half a mile into heavy woods carrying ladders to rescue injured unconcious sky divers hanging in trees forty feet of the ground. Why in the middle of a major city people can not figure out how to get someone to a ambulance. Fiberglass stokes baskets make great sleds. All it takes is the desire and the know how. Let me just say there are excellent people out there in the EMS field. However these people here are not in that catagory.
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Dave Says:
Elmer,
I understand what you’re saying. As I said originally, I am not defending the actions (or inaction for that matter) of the EMS crew. I am pointing out that there are legitimate concerns about the EMS crew doing so in such severe weather. Being able to move a patient in the snow safely has to be a consideration.
You have piqued my interest though by your reference to ladders and fiberglass stokes baskets. Both items are not commonly found on ambulances in my area, but rather on firetrucks manned by 5 men. So I have to ask if in fact ambulances in your area would have such equipment, and if not what is the likelihood of a Fire Department engine being dispatched to assist?
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Elmer Fudd Says:
Yes Dave, out here many ambulances have these on hand in the winter due to the many mva’s with all the interstates around here. And the fire depts. of course have these avail. as well. And lift assist by fire personnell are also very common. The reason this issue hits home with me is because we strive like hell around here to be the best we can be. I and others around here have been awarded citations and such from the state for saving peoples lives. When you see someone too lazy to do it right it pisses you off.
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Elmer Fudd Says:
Also Dave this second issue with the infant not being transported. It would take nothing to walk down to the house and carry a 11 month old infant back to the ambulance in their arms. No need for help of any kind. And they just drove away. That is indefensable.
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Dave Says:
Elmer,
I completely understand where you’re coming from. Having spent 15+ years working in EMS and Public Safety I also find it extremely frustrating when these events occur. My own city recently had a similar experience with two EMTs in a bakery. There was no snow, no wind, no rain, and yet they couldn’t find the time to assess a patient that was a room away. That was in fact more than frustrating, it was enraging.
But at the same time I realize that there are system challenges nation wide, especially with EMS system demand increasing while budgets decrease, inter-agency cooperation and retention of the experienced and dedicated providers. It’s a dilemma that the alarm was sounded about years ago, but unfortunately it only gets attention when a sentinel event such as this occurs.
I’m not aware of the story about the 11 month old child. Do you have a link?
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Elmer Fudd Says:
Yes, here it is. Also there was something about the city 911 center was closed and everything is now dispatched through allegheny county 911. Is this true and if so do they have call overload?http://www.wpxi.com/news/22604262/detail.html
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Elmer Fudd Says:
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Dave Says:
Elmer,
Thanks for the links. It appears there was more than one system failure during those storms, which raises questions of overall preparedness.
If indeed the county recently took over call intake for the city, these events highlight serious deficiencies and disconnections in that system. I also then have to wonder about the conversations between the dispatcher and the ambulance crews, because dispatching and call intake usually go hand in hand.
Thanks again for the links and the conversation.
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Yes Mary, It Is A Transportation System Says:
[...] Late last night I was made aware of another case in the Pittsburgh area of an EMS crew telling a mother with ill 11 month old twins to walk to them, and then left when she was unable to do so. This came via Elmer Fudd in this post’s comment section [...]
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red pen mama Says:
For those suggesting I am ridiculous for chastising plow drivers: I didn’t say anything about them stopping every 50 feet, or clearing every driveway. I suggested that they push the snow to the right of my drive into a clearing, rather than pushing it up the hill and then to the left and directly in front of my car.
Thanks!
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Bojack Says:
*** HELP WANTED ***
Are you related to an Allegheny County or City of Pittsburgh Democratic stooge??
Did you fail the test for tollbooth attendant??
Can you produce some proof of at least spelling GED??
GOOD NEWS!!!!!
Apply now to the Allegheny County 911 call center!!
Special consideration given to proven-failure lower management types!!!
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Kathy Says:
For those of you asking about whether the 911 centers are now really all part of the County, the answer is yes. Here is one of the articles about it, from back in 2006. At this time, all of the regional 911 centers are closed and consolidated in the county center:
Last piece of Allegheny County 911 system consolidation put in place
Tuesday, January 17, 2006
By Jerome L. Sherman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
A year ago, Jon Jaso fielded emergency 911 calls for about two dozen municipalities in northwestern Allegheny County from the “cave,” a cramped room in McCandless town hall.
Now, he does his job at his own ultramodern computer console with five flat-screen monitors in the county’s high-tech emergency management headquarters in Point Breeze.
“What we have here is a blessing,” said Mr. Jaso, 33, sitting amid more than 60 similar work stations that track police, fire and emergency medical vehicles.This week, the people who work at those stations will become responsible for handling emergency calls from almost every corner of the county. The Eastern Regional Dispatch Center in Monroeville is transferring its employees to the county’s Point Breeze facility, one of the final stages in a consolidation process that started five years ago.
At that point, in 2001, the county shared revenues from the monthly 911 fee for all land-line telephone numbers with seven regional dispatch centers: Eastern, Northwest, Newcom, South Hills, Southwest, Mon Valley and Pittsburgh.
The centers are no more. The Point Breeze location has absorbed them, growing from 13 employees to 220 at the start of this year. It has a $9.5 million budget and receives about 4,000 calls a day.
All county residents will start paying a $1 monthly fee for their land lines this year, up from 74 cents, to help cover some of the added costs of the merged system. Pittsburgh residents were already paying the higher fee.
The fee increase will add about $1.1 million in revenue for the county.
“Now we can ensure we have the same level of care countywide,” said Bob Full, chief of the county’s emergency services operation.
But even though his department’s operators are responsible for answering almost all 911 calls, more than 20 municipalities still dispatch emergency vehicles on their own, at least for now. They function as 24-hour ring-down operations, meaning all calls to the county’s headquarters are transferred within seconds to the municipality where an emergency originated.
Most of the county’s 130 municipalities see significant financial benefits from completely merging with the Point Breeze center. In Pleasant Hills, the borough council unanimously decided to do away with its ring-down status last month.
“We had to make cutbacks,” said Councilman Brad Rodeheaver, chairman of council’s public safety committee.
Officials in Pleasant Hills aren’t sure how many of the borough’s six dispatchers will lose their jobs, but Mr. Rodeheaver estimates savings of $150,000 to $200,000 annually. The borough’s budget for 2006 is about $7 million.
Mt. Lebanon, former home of the South Hills regional center, will hold onto its own dispatchers this year, at a cost of $500,000. But a merger is likely in the near future.
“The fire department believes they cannot make an orderly transition if we went with the county immediately,” said Commissioner Barbara Logan, who in December joined two other commissioners in voting to keep the 911 center open. “They’d like to have more time to explore this.”
Monroeville plans to use its own dispatchers when the Eastern Regional Center closes.
Five municipalities — Leet, Leetsdale, Bell Acres, McDonald and Trafford — are covered by 911 operations in neighboring counties.
Bob Harvey, Allegheny County’s 911 communications manager, has overseen the sweeping changes at the Point Breeze facility since he joined the emergency services department in 2001.
Last year was especially busy. Pittsburgh merged its operations with the county, and the Strip District office building that formerly housed the city’s 911 center is now a backup site.
“Boom — you had to get to know 70 people,” Mr. Harvey said of the merger. “Hopefully, this year, we can settle down a bit.”
That may not happen. County officials already are planning to overhaul their equipment with about $13 million from the state, which collects 911 fees from cell phone users. The money will pay for technology that allows operators to locate a cell phone call’s origin.
In the meantime, officials encourage county residents to use a land-line phone for 911 calls, if possible, because operators can immediately find their address. About 40 percent of 911 calls come from cell phones.
All callers hear a standard greeting, “Allegheny County 911. What city, township or borough?” Most cell phone users know their locations, but some don’t, forcing operators to occasionally play the role of “mini-detectives,” Mr. Harvey said.
In March of last year, it took several hours to discover the whereabouts of a man who said he’d fallen from a bridge. Although semiconscious, the man managed to make a call on his cell phone, and operators kept him on the line as they sifted through clues hinting at his location, including background noise from a passing train. They determined that the man was under the 40th Street Bridge.
Six operators and one shift commander received commendations for their roles in finding him.
The county’s 911 center is a vast space, with more than 300 computer monitors, low ceilings, few windows and dim lighting that provides a “calming” effect. Most operators wear headphones, and a general quiet conceals the often chaotic world at the other end of dozens of phone lines and 67 emergency radio frequencies.
Occasionally, that world pierces the silence. On the evening of Jan. 9, Kandia Jefferson dispatched several Pittsburgh police officers to check reports of gunfire at a Spring Hill apartment complex. About 10 minutes later, he was yelling, “Officer down! Officer down!”
Officer Garry Bankston, an 11-year veteran, had been shot in the leg. Mr. Jefferson called for an ambulance and more police.
“I screamed it, yes I did,” said Mr. Jefferson, 29, of the Hill District, dressed in the standard khaki pants and black polo shirt worn by county 911 operators. “You don’t have time to think. You just have time to react.”
He spent the rest of his shift monitoring the progress of the police investigation. A man wasn’t arrested and charged in the shooting until later in the week. Officer Bankston is expected to make a full recovery.
Mr. Harvey and Mr. Full readily praise their staff for being able to handle a range of difficult situations, even as the 911 center continues to expand and change.
“We absolutely continue to be a work in progress,” Mr. Harvey said. “We’re still in our infancy.”
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06017/639154-85.stm#ixzz0fzYgDpMM
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Christine Says:
I thought the same thing…what if it was my mother or my in-laws calling and waiting for help that never came. Who in their right minds wouldn’t have gotten out of the damn ambulance and gone to help? Let alone a trained medical professional. Such a disgrace.
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elysianfantasy Says:
I’m with #76! Sexy Jesus, you are right on! Let’s have a petition! Does anyone know how to set one up (online or otherwise)? We can easily find 20 city residents willing to petition a Common Pleas Court judge to get that boob out of office. Unless they too are in Lukey’s back pocket…
P.S. No offense to those with boobs (including me). I didn’t mean to sully our body parts by associating it with that moron.
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Izzy Says:
Did anyone see this? http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/columns/heyl/s_667899.html
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BethH Says:
@lawyer-type: Thanks for the cite. I’m curious if someone would argue that the exceptions to the immunity statute for (6) streets and (7) sidewalks could come into effect here? Didn’t the EMTs admit that their failure to provide care was a result of . . . the unplowed streets and sidewalks (though I guess the city isn’t responsible for those?) I don’t practice in this area at all, and perhaps there are cases out there that make any case against the City futile, but I am hopeful that someone is willing to argue for them. At the very least, it’s clear that the immunity doesn’t extend to civil rights claims, and with that “jitney” comment, I suspect there would be enough for that claim as well. As you mentioned, lawyers have been far craftier on lesser matters.
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anon Says:
could you stop being so GD preachy? this blog is no longer fun to read.
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Calamity Jane Says:
City residents….Please find 20 residents to file that petition with the courts so the process to possibly have Lukie-boy removed may be initiated. I’m not a city resident, but the actions of this amateur mayor effect the entire Western PA region.
I watched the news conference. Mike Huss was so angry that I thought he would chew the microphone off of the podium! Then Luke throws a hissy-fit and sternly lectures the media over the red-hot rumor mill that he so ablely fuels…..I wanted to slap the styling mousse out of that immature little brat’s hair after hearing his wah-wah comments. It was neither the time nor the place for Lukie’s self-admitted “punking” of the media. With the lawyers circling around the City-County Building like vultures in Death Valley, Lukie can only berate the media instead of address the very serious situation that the city is facing. This guy needs to grow up and do whatever he can to allay the jock-sniffing, celebrity chasing, party boy image he has unconsciously created for himself.
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MrsGJG Says:
All I know is that if Julie Bologna had the foresight to pack a bag and bring her pillow to spend the night at the TV station during the storm, perhaps the mayor could have been more prepared to be in the city to take care of business. It’s not as if we didn’t know the storm was coming.
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Bojack Says:
@anon-
So stop reading chump!
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anon Says:
@bojack –
I can’t stop reading. part of me keeps hoping that i’ll come back to this site one day and it will be pittgirl again, not Ginny.
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Bojack Says:
@anon-
IMHO, it’s the total package!!
Mary Tyler Mooreanelli AND reality!
You want pure fluff, watch KDKA news!!
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Moonbeam's Momma Says:
Check this out:
http://tooldtowork.blogspot.com/2010/02/comment-from-someone-in-pittsburgh.html
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lawyer-type Says:
The streets and sidewalk exceptions only apply if the plaintiff is directly injured by a defect in and of the street or sidewalk, for example, a pothole or crack in the sidewalk.
Is Huss angry because he also had to cancel his Mardi Gras plans? I mean, he’s the brilliant public safety director who decided to travel to the mountains on the eve of a predicted snow storm and then couldn’t manage to dig his mayor out to get him safely back to Pgh in time to do his job. I agree w/the comment in the link provided by Moonbeam’s Momma that opines that Huss is not interested in anything except self-promotion. Huss may have all the basic credentials, and he talks a good game, but some of the most serious and embarassing public safety debacles of the last two decades have happened under his watch. He talks a good game about how tough he’s going to be on those who break the rules, but a good manager invests his greater energy in anticipating these events and developing good policy and making good personnel decisions to prevent them from ever happening. No, Huss is the kind of guy who promotes domestic abusers and then huffs and puffs when they embarass him by committing domestic abuse. How many more firefighters will be arrested for DUI before Huss figures out what to do?
Unfortunately, most people have zero faith that the current administration will ever figure anything out until the eve of the next election. The only option is to be your own public safety manager (adopt 24/7 a worst-case-scenario system, i.e. the city will never provide me with the services I reasonable expect) or take your tax dollars to a grown-up municipality that has its priorities straight.
