Oh my God, I can’t believe I’m writing you another freaking letter about a sexual assault allegation.
What in the hell is wrong with you?
And please, I don’t mean that as, “What in the hell is wrong with you that you sexually assaulted a young college student,” which, if you did, may your penis shrivel up and fall off. No, I mean, “What in the hell is wrong with you that you do not take a stronger hold on the charmed life you have, but instead seem content to let it slip away as a result of your vices and/or gross stupidity?”
Am I saying you assaulted this girl? No.
Am I saying you DIDN’T assault this girl? No.
I don’t think at this point we can truly take a side on the veracity of the claim. There’s not enough evidence yet. It’s possible she’s crying wolf. It’s also possible that you are a perverted, sexually violent wolf. If you want us to look at her and say, “Maybe she’s lying,” then you must also agree that we should look at you and say, “Maybe he did it.”
We don’t know. We might never know.
But here’s what we do know. With a sexual assault accusation already hanging over your head, be it true or false, you never should have put yourself in the position to have this new accusation thrown at you. What this new accusation does is essentially take the first accusation, which was sinking under the weight of a less-than-stable seemingly opportunistic accuser, and shores that first accusation up. Strengthens it. Plugs some holes. Gives it just enough of an injection of air to make us look at it again as it rises above the surface of the water. Hey look at that thing right there. That thing I turned away from and said, nah, that’s just a crazy lady who wants money. Look at that thing floating on the water. It looks different now.
I don’t think there’s a one of us who isn’t looking at that thing with new eyes. That isn’t wondering if possibly, if maybe, just maybe, you have trouble taking no for an answer.
I get it. You’re a man. A wealthy young man. Then go out to the bars. Have a blast. Buy a round for everyone in the place if you’d like. Laugh. Shoot pool. Spend your money. Tip big. But for the love of God, don’t go anywhere alone with a woman you just met. Don’t disappear to the bathroom with a 20-year-old you spent the night bar-hopping with. Hire a chaperon to be with you at all times when you’re out partying. Don’t get drunk in public. Don’t be a douchebag. Don’t traipse around town with your posse like you’re Ed Hardy’s gift to our eyes.
You might ask, why do I have to live by these rules? Woe is me that I have a target on my forehead and all the opportunistic money-hungry girls are aiming for it. And who made me a role model? Why can’t I just do what I want and drink and have some sex with girls I just met? Why do I have to be so careful?
I’ll tell you why. Because you run a football camp for kids. Because you agreed to abide by the terms of the NFL’s Code of Conduct. Because you are paid millions and millions of dollars and that should be enough money to enjoy your vices in private. Because you have an entire football organization partially resting on your shoulders and it helps if you can keep those shoulders out of jail, or at the very least off of TMZ.
So what now? Do you hold that same press conference where you enter the room with a heavy sigh and tell us with a wavering voice and tears in your eyes that you’re sorry for the “distraction” and that these allegations are completely 100% false and that you’ll fight them until the truth comes out? I don’t speak for Steeler Nation, but I don’t want to hear it again. Save it for your family.
I don’t know. I’m like, kinda done with you. I can’t look at you the same. Before, you were just a fug, gross schmuck who I heard lots of nasty rumors about, but who seemed to have a generous heart and who, despite a knack for holding on to a football way too long after the pocket collapsed, could capably throw well enough to win two Super Bowls. Now, with this second accusation, you’re a fug, gross schmuck with less smarts than a dog turd and less self-control than a spastic colon, who might have actually sexually assaulted a woman and who hired Ray Lewis’ murder-rap lawyer to defend him.
Unless this accuser completely reverses course and admits you never non-consensually touched her, consider the rest of your public life asterisked and when we scroll down to the footnote it will say, “*Twice-accused of sexual assault. But he throws a hell of a fade.”
I can’t speak for others, but for me, no amount of football-tossing brilliance will ever erase the shadows this second accusation has cast over your character, or the very bright light it has shone on your stupidity, or the very permanent edits it will generate to your Wikipedia page.
Yours,
Me.
Category: Ben Roethlisberger | tags: Ben Roethsliberger |
March 9, 2010
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Jenny Says:
Why can’t he be more like Daniel Sepulveda? You know, perfect.
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Marie Says:
I couldn’t agree more, Ginny.
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PA Girl in VA Says:
Well said. I liked him somewhat as a football player but never cared for him on a personal level (based on what I’ve heard about him). But now, it’s hard to like him at all. As long as he plays well, I’ll tolerate him as our QB. Maybe Mario Lemieux can take him under his wing, like he did with Sidney. God knows he needs some good advice in his misguided personal life.
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gunnlino Says:
Although no criminal charges have been filed in either matter it is beginning to appear that Ben, the Prima Uomo may be Ben the Jekyll and Hyde guy.
Personally I’m tiring of it all, he has more money and time than he knows what to do with and still he puts himself in these situations.
One wonders if there is someone in his life who has enough nuts to tell to knock off the crap. -
Marcy Says:
Nicely put, Ginny.
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Sooska Says:
Excellent, Ginny. That is good advice for any young man regardless of celebrity or income, but doubly so for them.
Accusations happen to the best of them even. Sometimes they are true; sometimes not. Lest we forget, Mario learned the hard way. Ben hasn’t yet.
At the very least Benny now has a bad reputation for bad judgement. At the very worst, the rape kit will decide things for his whole charmed life, his career and the Steelers near future and their $100 million investment, and the fans support. I hope this is another case of just living stupid.
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TwinmamaTeb Says:
big tipper? buying a round for everyone? bwuahahahahaaa! Now that’s funny.
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bucdaddy Says:
Don’t disappear to the bathroom with a 20-year-old you spent the night bar-hopping with.
—
Exactly right. When Bennie’s a grown-up man instead of a little boy, he’ll know to do his bar-f*cking out there on the tables where there are witnesses, like Rick Pitino did.To recap:
Witnesses = plausible deniability
Pitino = adult
Bennie = boy
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Magnus Patris Says:
I know a couple of young boys who will not EVER be wearing a Steelers shirt with #7 on it. Also from now on, I’m going to refer to the Steelers’ QB as “Big Dummy Dummlesburger” in polite company and something that rhymes with “Schmucktard” in private. Maybe like Chad Ochostinko, Big Dummy can change his name legally so that he can have “BIG DUMMY” on his uniform. Might as well keep his number the same so he can remember his IQ easily.
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babelbabe Says:
yet another good reason to follow hockey instead. some may be thugs on the ice but it seems to get their aggression out more appropriately.
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empirechick Says:
First accusation: crazy woman who deluded herself into thinking a one night stand was the prelude to happily ever after.
Second accusation: Ray Lewis’ lawyer? Really?? Ben might as well be walking into the courthouse with Jim Ecker at his side.
Yes, there are people out there just trying to scam a celebrity, but how is it that they only show up around Ben? And more importantly, why didn’t he learn his lesson the first time??
Sorry to the Yinzer apologists, but no matter how many Super Bowls he’s won, Ben is not a good guy. Before anyone starts yelling, I didn’t say he was guilty – I said he’s a jerk. And he is.
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G-Man Says:
Who’d have thought the QB would pass Jeff Reed on list of sports douchebags?
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Lauren Says:
@babelbabe- there are plenty of great football players that you only hear good things about off the field. Drew Brees (and most of the entire Saints organization) comes to mind. The problem is not a football problem, it’s a Ben problem. Until he figures out that he isn’t a frat boy anymore and that the only reason anyone gives a shit about him is because he has money, he will continue to make these same mistakes. There’s obviously a maturity issue here, one only magnified by worshiping yinzers and millions of dollars.
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Dana Says:
that’s church if I’ve ever heard it.
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Trisha Says:
AMEN. I just realized I’m never going to be able to wear my Ben jersey again.. nor will I want to. I want a refund.
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Scott Says:
“Hire a chaperon to be with you at all times when you’re out partying.”
Completely agree with this point and it was the first thing that I said when I heard about this. Don’t go to your car alone. Don’t go to the bathroom alone. Don’t be on an elevator alone. Don’t walk to your hotel room alone. Don’t ever put yourself in a situation where someone can even make the accusation with a straight face because there are credible people standing around you that will instantly say. “that didn’t happen because I was with him the whole time.” you have the money to make this happen. The fact that I have heard none of his posse running to his defense or telling the media that he is totally innocent makes me think they weren’t around him or they’d rather not defend him.
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mike Says:
I thought when he went over the hood of the car without a helmet that he had that certain attitude that he would do what he wanted and to hell with the Steelers. The pattern continues, he doesn’t get it what it means to be an adult and responsible.
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Leah Says:
Ginny- You are dead on. And… you totally crack me up. Well done.
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rickh Says:
Spot on ginny.
He needs to grow up and lose the oversized T-shirts, baggy jeans, backwards ballcap and the effing ear buds. Start acting like a man and accept the responsibility that comes with the position.
I’m out.
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wckdcll Says:
Well put Ginny! I wish he would jsut be a TINY bit smarter when it comes to his public persona. Huge UGH there. And yet another reason why I bought a Troysus jersey, I can still wear it with pride!!
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SC 'Burgher Says:
Great open letter and comments by readers.
There was an interesting article in Newsweek by George Will the other week about men acting like boys well into their so-called adult life. The Steeler QB may be their poster child along with Tiger Woods.
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bluzdude Says:
Nicely done!
And thank God I never bought a #7 jersey.
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Larry King Says:
Bojack, what’s your view on the situation? Discuss!
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spoon Says:
burger king bathroom = magicland
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tw Says:
“Do you hold that same press conference where you enter the room with a heavy sigh and tell us with a wavering voice and tears in your eyes that you’re sorry for the “distraction” and that these allegations are completely 100% false and that you’ll fight them until the truth comes out? I don’t speak for Steeler Nation, but I don’t want to hear it again.”
100% agree…there is nothing he can say that i would want to hear from him at this point. Can’t believe a word from him…beyond disappointing. And embarrassing too…do you hear what the Ravens, Giants, and so on are saying about Pittsburgh’s stupid QB…and sadly they are absolutely right. He has made the Steelers the laughing stock now…grrr.
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Debi Says:
Not this time, Ben. Enough is enough!
Go Ginny!
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JeanC Says:
That’s Freaking Church. Perhaps Troysus can provide some sort of intervention on his fugliness.
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k Says:
empirechick: Second accusation: Ray Lewis’ lawyer? Really?? Ben might as well be walking into the courthouse with Jim Ecker at his side.
I have been saying this all day! When someone hires Jimmy Ecker my brain immediate reacts with “wow, that guy’s so guilty.” When Ben hires Ray Lewis’s defense attny…exact same thought process…followed by multiple head-desk moments.
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N Says:
Ben’s been a jerk since the first time I met him at a restaurant I work at and continues to be that way every time he comes back. He refused to sign autographs for a group of kids that were thrilled to meet him, one little girl even cried.
Ben needs to look at a Troy and go oooooooh that’s how you do it…. I’m embarrassed that pittsburgh is going to bed associated with these sex assault scandals AGAIN…
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tw Says:
p.s. to all those out there defending Benny (there are a few) saying he’s just a celebrity athlete with a target on his back….I’ll ask simply, how come Sidney Crosby can keep a clean nose when he is the star of the team (heck the league), makes loads of money, is YOUNGER than our Benny, and is way HOTTER? I’ll tell you why, b/c he’s incredibly mature and SMART and doesn’t put himself into those situations where these things can happen. ughh.
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Joe K. Says:
I hate this story. I hate not knowing and waiting for the police report, and knowing that no matter what the police report says, it’s bad news for the Steelers.
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Carpetbagger Says:
Every team dreads that phone call. The call from the police or the hospital informing them that one of their players did–or is being accused of doing–something stupid. Between motorcycle accidents and sexual assaults, the Steelers have had three of those calls now. Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer, David Rivers, and heck, even Rex Grossman, all put together, have never led to one call. At this point, the Steelers have to know that at some point there is bound to be a fourth.
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Pensgirl Says:
His lack of a self-preservation instinct is baffling to say the least.
The best case scenario is that he is attracted to crazy liars and has a penchant for pissing them off. Even if that scenario is the whole truth, he needs to adjust his behavior. While we would wish him to be more like Troy or Sid, that’s never going to happen. But there are tons of athletes, actors, and musicians who engage in nightclub sex with strangers and don’t ever get accused of anything. He should get some pointers from those people.
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elysianfantasy Says:
The only thing that can save Benny now is an ankle bracelet that is closely monitored by Art Rooney. And whenever he gets near an underage girl who may or may not be paying attention to him, an alarm goes off. Or he gets zapped. Either way, I think that would curb his moronic habits.
A chastity belt could also work. One that is fused to his pelvis. Maybe that will also help him stay in the pocket. Just a thought.
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Cybil Says:
Very well said! Fool me once – shame on me. Fool me twice – shame on you!
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Cybil Says:
… or the other way…
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Lisa G. Says:
Excellent post and comments. I have no respect for him, and it makes me sick that his actions are now a huge blemish on the Rooneys and their organization. I wonder how long they’ll put up with it??
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Tim Says:
“I don’t speak for Steeler Nation, but I don’t want to hear it again. Save it for your family.
I don’t know. I’m like, kinda done with you. I can’t look at you the same.” Ginny that sums up exactly how I feel. Even if assault charges are never filed I will still feel that way. Ben is not a very nice person. -
Monty Says:
George Bush took over Cybil’s screen name for a minute.
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Martin Silenus Says:
I’m second and thirding those who pointed out how Ben has lawyered up on on this. He is now proudly in the company of Ray Lewis and Pac Man Jones. Awesome, Benny. Awesome.
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Pierce H. Says:
I think I get it. Even if he was falsely accused, he is to blame. I mean, even if she committed the vile crime of false rape reporting, which could destroy his life, it’s his fault.
Now, does that mean that if she was, in fact, sexually assaulted, it’s OK to blame her for putting herself in that situation?
I mean it has to work both ways, right? Or would persons of gender scream “victim blaming!” if anyone tried to say how stupid SHE was.
Look, he was stupid not to have a witness at all times given what happened to him two years ago. But it is unjust in the extreme to say that a mere accusation, by someone we don’t know anything about, based on facts that haven’t been revealed, casts a permanent “shadow” over his character. For goodness sake! What country is this!
If he was falsely accused, the only shadow it casts is over the false accuser, who should be prosecuted.
Wanna know how unfair your stigmatizing him is? Here’s the reality: for most rape claims, we honestly don’t know what happened. We would have to evaluate the evidence for each case, and nobody does that. We know that about 15 percent of these claims end in conviction. We can be reasonably certain these were actual rapes even though some result in convictions of innocent men and boys (see The Innocence Project). We know that anywhere from 8 to likely closer to 50 percent are “false,” not just unfounded, depending on the study. Aside from that, probably most fall in the ambiguous gray where we just don’t know what happened. We can never know.
As for the stats, the last time the FBI reported on unfounded rape claims was 1996 (it never reported on “false” claims per se), and it found that 15% of all claims were “unfounded.” (This percentage, by the way, reflected only the claims that the FBI knew were unfounded; the FBI did not suggest that the other 85 percent were actual rapes. Rape claims do not lend themselves to that kind of certainty.)
But every impartial, objective study shows false rape claims are a significant problem. As reported by “False Rape Allegations” by Eugene Kanin, Archives of Sexual Behavior Feb 1994 v23 n1 p81(12), Professor Kanin’s landmark study of a mid-size Midwestern city over the course of nine years found that 41 percent of all rape claims were false. Kanin also studied the police records of two unnamed large state universities and found that in three years, 50 percent of the 64 rapes reported to campus police were determined to be false.” Kanin was a feminist icon, widely cited for his studies on male aggression, but after people like me started citing this landmark study, he became a nitwit, incapable of doing simple research. Go figure.
See also, E. Greer, The Truth Behind Legal Dominance Feminism’s ‘Two Percent False Rape Claim’ Figure, 33 Loyola of Los Angeles Law Review 947, a scholarly law review article that traced the two percent false rape canard to its untrustworthy origins.
In addition, a massive Air Force study in 1985 studied 556 rape allegations. It found that 27% of the accusers recanted, and an independent evaluation revealed a false accusation rate of 60%. McDowell, Charles P., Ph.D. “False Allegations.” Forensic Science Digest, (publication of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations), Vol. 11, No. 4 (December 1985), p. 64.
See also, “Until Proven Innocent,” the widely praised (praised even by the New York Times, which the book skewers — as well as almost every other major U.S. news source) and painstaking study of the Duke Lacrosse non-rape case. Authors Stuart Taylor and Professor K.C. Johnson explain that the exact number of false claims is elusive but “[t]he standard assertion by feminists that only 2 percent” or sexual assault claims “are false, which traces to Susan Brownmiller’s 1975 book ‘Against Our Will,’ is without empirical foundation and belied by a wealth of empirical data. These data suggest that at least 9 percent and probably closer to half” of all sexual assault claims “are false . . . .” (Page 374.)
The point is, it happens a lot more than you might think. And for you to stigmatize your local quarterback based on a lone accusation is frightening, unjust, and unAmerican.
But I agree, he was damn stupid.
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Lizzy Says:
Dear Ben,
Dude, grow the F* up. Obviously you deserve this, wether you did it or not, to have a 20 year old in your VIP room, where you were inviting girls to come have a drink…An ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE BEN, is she 21, I DON’T THINK SO! So yes, if she is lying, you have put yourself in this situation, so I can’t necessarily blame her nor feel sorry for your A$$ (yes dollar signs, because that’s what girls see, when they see your mug)! -
Mac S. Says:
Ben stigmatized himself and your agenda is noted.
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BIGGEORGE Says:
Well, something someone told me as a young man rings so true….you know when you are ready to have sex when, you can comfortable talk about your like and dislikes with your partner without
snickering. The second part of this is you need to be able to talk about sex with a doctor, psychologist, etc.If you can’t do this, then you aren’t ready for sex.
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SpudMom Says:
“or the very bright light it has shone on your stupidity”
His motorcycle accident that he had while on a expired permit (lisence?) while also not wearing a helmet (which was illegal for his still-learning -to-ride circumstances) which then resulted in his near death pretty much took care of noticing the stupidity. At least for me.
And, then, of course, whenever he opens his mouth, all doubt about his stupidity is removed.
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Jen Says:
Pierce H., It isn’t a lone accusation. It’s now *two* accusations from two different women.
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Leslie Says:
Well said, Ginny. THAT’S church.
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Daryl Says:
Hear, hear!
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toni Says:
Pierce, the number one defense of a male client against a female accuser is the “she asked for it” line. I don’t know what you’ve been reading but by the “she asked for it”…it breaks down to well she was in the bar at 3 am ( stupid)…well she walked down the dark alley alone ( stupid) ….etc, etc.
What Ben did is EXTREMELY stupid. The first accuser of sexual misconduct just sounded batshit crazy. The points that make this a much scarier accusation are these:
* Instead of issuing any sort of apology or addresssing the situation he goes out and hires Ray Lewis’s lawyer. In other words, NO DENIAL.
* He hired Ray Lewis’s lawyer! He’as already got a group of lawyers working on the first sexual charge…why not make it 2 cases? Why go with this guy?
*THIS accuser went straight to the cops AND to a hospital…that’s deadly serious. DNA evidence gathered…and Ben’s more than likely gonna provide a sample to see if we have a match.
* Ben’s posse isnt exaclty falling over themselves helping to bail his reputation out of the fire here.
Sex happened. Sex happened in a bathroom. Bottom line, was sex consensual or forced? The girl was, indeed, EXTREMELY STUPID for walking WITH A GUY ( any guy) into a bathroom ( like what the hell reason would you possibly have for bring a male over the age of 7 into a bathroom with you?!?!)
That doesn’t excuse the fact that Ben has earned the gold crown of stupid beyond belief. $120 mill franchise QB is expected to act responsibly…and by age 28, at least grown up. He’s tarnished his reputation beyond salvation I think with this case. THAT’S extremely stupid.
Ben Roethlisberger needs, at the very least, to clean his act up so that he doesn’t get false accusations thrown at him. And if he’s guilty I hope he meets Bubba in the jail shower to find out what non-consensual sex means.
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Sherri Says:
Agree – agree – agree…. Have to assume he doesn’t actually THINK at all….
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Vivian formerly NYLuvsPitts Says:
Thanks Ginny. Well put.
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DG Says:
He should start taking his mother with him wherever he goes. He starts getting out of line – she can slap him.
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carnegiegrl Says:
I agree with everything you’ve said here.
However the following line stands out to me as the one that makes this letter pulitzer material:
“Don’t traipse around town with your posse like you’re Ed Hardy’s gift to our eyes.”
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tw Says:
Has it been established that they went into the bathroom together? i thought i read somewhere that he just popped in there after she went in. Hopefully there was a surveillance camera OUTSIDE the bathroom area so they can see if they went in together or not. if he went in separate from her that really wouldn’t look good for his case.
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mindymin Says:
@PierceH I can appreciate that you feel the need to defend his honor so to speak, but no one is saying whether he did or didnt do it. His actions were stupid and he should have known better than to put himself in ANOTHER situation that could lead to another assault charge. Personally I could care less whether he did or didnt. If he did assault this woman it def lends more credence to the other charge, but it still doesnt change the fact that hes a frickin moron for allowing this to happen again. I have known women who HAVE falsely accused men of rape after making a bad decision and its a loathsome thing to do to anyone – that stigma can hurt a person for years – I just find it hard to believe that this man is so dumb to have chosen (and it was def a choice) to put himself in a place where this could happen again. So long story short I dont believe anyone is saying HE DID IT BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!!! Its more of a Jeebus Benny! what kind of idiot lets this happen to him twice?!? Grow up and act like a human being not a Neanderthal Asshat!
and Ginny- very well said. Its disappointing to many that Ben just doesnt seem to get that hes an icon whether he likes it or not and with that should come a modicum of self preservation…which apparently he is lacking. So sad. I really didnt think much of him personally before, this definitely didnt help matters any.
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Jaime Says:
I think there are two different things being discussed here the alleged crime and accusations and Ben’s role as a role model and member of the Steelers.
As for the crime, if any, one of the greatest things about this country is that Ben is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. None of us were there to know what happened. I completely agree that based on everything we hear about him and his escapades and what has been reported in the media its damning. But again, innocent until proven guilty.
Secondly, his role as a captain and member of the Steelers is completely different. He’s completely guilty of screwing that up royally. As a fan I turned a blind eye to the motorcycle accident because he was “Ben” and we’d just won the Superbowl. Then Tahoe happened. Again, I stood up for Ben and said that it wasn’t true because of all of the stories about the girl. But I looked at him differently. Now this. This man represents one of the most esteemed sports franchises, if not THE most esteemed franchise. He represents six Superbowl victories. He represents our city, our Steelers nation and me. Yes, I find him guilty of not valuing that position and compromising everything he represents. He’s an athlete who has been given the world by this city, team and its fans. Ben and all of the athletes out there need to remember that it can be taken away just as easily as its given. I will never forgiven him for tarnishing this team’s city and reputation.
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tw Says:
“I will never forgiven him for tarnishing this team’s city and reputation.”
…I agree.
The Steelers were looked upon as a classy, hardworking organization which I was so proud of. But take a look at any sports blog/site now and we are a laughing stock like the Bungals. Very disappointing to say the least.
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Jen Says:
DG, Ben’s mother died in a car accident when he was 8 years old.
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Summer Says:
@Pierce H.: When women and minorities have the same rights, advantages and perks as white men, then I will listen to your reverse sexism bullshit.
If the allegations are untrue, then Ben can take her to civil court, but to imply that rape and libel are anywhere near each other in the pantheon of wrong doing is riduculous.
Stop it. You’re making intelligent, thoughtful men look bad with your tdlr rants.
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NAM Says:
You know, I haven’t been reading this blog long, but this is the reason I keep coming back. You have a real knack, nay, a gift for saying things perfectly. Very well said, and as for Ben, maybe Troy and Sid should sit him down in a room somewhere and try to talk some kind of sense to him.
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butcher's dog Says:
From all this I’m gonna take “less self-control than a spastic colon” and probably make it my new mantra. Or something.
From Forrest Gump (again): Stupid is as stupid does. And this was stupid, regardless of legal consequences.
And please don’t wake up bojack, folks. He went off on this something fierce over the weekend. I’d rather wait to have him reload on global warming or repayment for the G-20 security forces.
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Tiffany Says:
Benny is a chode, plain and simple.
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Bojack Says:
Slut “A” was/is a shameless whore looking for a payoff.
Slut “B”, we don’t know anything yet except if she was a nice, virtuous girl she would not have been out drinking and whoring around at 2AM.
They both deserve what they get.
Ben is obviously the victim.
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Bojack Says:
@Summer-
You’re absolutely right. White men are to blame for everything wrong in this country and the world. We should all liquidate all
property and give it to the oppressed women and minorities and voluntarily commit to, oh, a couple of hundred years of slavery
to make it right.OK??[Office Space]-Lumbergh voice> “Greeaaat”
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Summer Says:
@Bojack:
Sounds like a plan. When are you signing up?
PS: Glad you agree with me that white men are responsible for most large-scale wars, acts of genocide and slavery.
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MG Says:
Pierce H:
I find it interesting that you’re skewering Susan Brownmiller’s statistics, while tossing around a bunch of unsubstantiated data of your own. The truth is, without the methodology and purpose behind all of the studies you cite (in addition to revealing who funded said studies and any data limitations that exist), you’re not convincing anyone of anything. Other than the fact that you started from a premise that you think rape claims are exaggerated and found studies with results that support your hypothesis.
Jaime:
I think Ben and the Steelers are part of Pittsburgh, but they don’t represent Pittsburgh. Or me. Or anyone else. They’re a wonderful sports franchise, but I think incidents like this underscore the importance of our city becoming something more dynamic and multi-faceted than just home to the Pittsburgh Steelers.
MG
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Chris Says:
Doesn’t matter if he did it or not. I’m sure there will be a settlement before the truth comes out so we’ll never really know anyway.
HOWEVER, in the court of public opinion, he did it and he’s an idiot.
Excellent post.
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max Says:
Pierce, my man:
>>> I think I get it. Even if he was falsely accused, he is to blame. I mean, even if she committed the vile crime of false rape reporting, which could destroy his life, it’s his fault.
This is not an either-or proposition. There is likely much blame to share, in fact. Yes, he IS partly to blame, even if the claim of rape is 100 percent false and the woman committed the vile crime of false rape reporting. There are many, many rich, famous dudes out – athletes, actors, musicians – and very few of them have two sex assault allegations hanging over them. This sort of thing doesn’t happen to, say, Tom Hanks. Why is that? Probably because he doesn’t hook up with random chicks at a bar on weekends.
You threw out a lot of percentages. Some of them are demonstrably extreme – the best data out there suggests that between 5 and 10 percent of rape allegations are “false” in some way, certainly not 50-80 percent as cited in some of the most extreme cases (and that says nothing of the thousands of rape cases each year that likely go unreported, but that’s obviously a separate issue). Point is, this is a percentages game. Ben is playing it. Put yourself in this position often enough, and guess what? Odds are, you’re going to encounter someone just crazy / immoral / cash-hungry enough to cry rape.
And I’m not suggesting that’s what has happened here; he may well have assaulted her in some way. I’m just saying if you keep putting yourself at risk, then should you not bear some of the blame when the odds finally catch up to you? If you park your BMW in a high-crime neighborhood with the doors unlocked an keys in the ignition, and your car is stolen, who is to blame? Yes, the person who stole your car, first and foremost – but aren’t you a bit of a dummy, too? Ben is a BMW – a major, valuable investment. Don’t park it in a lousy neighborhood with the windows down.
>>> Now, does that mean that if she was, in fact, sexually assaulted, it’s OK to blame her for putting herself in that situation? I mean it has to work both ways, right? Or would persons of gender scream “victim blaming!” if anyone tried to say how stupid SHE was …
I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you here. Like I said, plenty of blame to go around – as my granddad once told me, not much good happens to people after 2 a.m. This is not to say that she was “asking” for it – but, yes, getting drunk underage is very often a stupid decision. Making a stupid decision, putting herself in a bad situation, does not equal victim-blaming – we can separate those two. On a somewhat related note, this is why many of rapes don’t go reported — because the woman feels that she put herself in bad position, or had too much too drink, or was out too late. All of that may be true, but it doesn’t mean that she wasn’t raped.
>> But it is unjust in the extreme to say that a mere accusation, by someone we don’t know anything about, based on facts that haven’t been revealed, casts a permanent “shadow” over his character. For goodness sake! What country is this!
It is America, Pierce. He is free to do as he pleases. And then we, too, are free to form opinions about his frat-boy behavior, and whether it’s smart, or mature, or befitting a sports icon and a leader of men. And he is free to refute it via his attorney. That is how the First Amendment works. ALL parts of the Bill of Rights apply here, NOT just the Fifth and Sixth Amendments.
>>> If he was falsely accused, the only shadow it casts is over the false accuser, who should be prosecuted.
Disagree about the “only” part, but yes, false reporting is a serious crime that should be prosecuted.
>>> Wanna know how unfair your stigmatizing him is? Here’s the reality: for most rape claims, we honestly don’t know what happened.
True. It’s often a he-said-she-said, between people who knew each other, or were at least acquainted with each other. That’s what makes these situations so muddy and confusing and hard to sort out. Which is EXACTLY WHY YOU DO NOT PUT YOURSELF IN THOSE SITUATIONS.
>>> We know that anywhere from 8 to likely closer to 50 percent are “false,” not just unfounded, depending on the study.
Fifty percent is rather on the high end. Of the many reputable studies that have been done on the topic, the best ones seem to arrive at a figure between 5 and 10 percent. 50 percent is an outlier. I think you know that. And 64 rapes on a college campus is a rather small sample size. But I’d agree that even if the number is around 1 in 10 or 1 in 20, that means we are looking at 10,000 to 20,000 false rape reports each year. That’s a real big number, and a real big problem – not just for the men who are falsely accused, but for the many women who have a legitimate rape claim, but are doubted from the outset because the of well-known false rape accusations that have been in the news, especially the last few years.
>>> Aside from that, probably most fall in the ambiguous gray where we just don’t know what happened. We can never know.
Very true.
>>> But every impartial, objective study shows false rape claims are a significant problem.
Also agreed.
>>> ‘Two Percent False Rape Claim’ Figure, 33 Loyola of Los Angeles Law Review 947, a scholarly law review article that traced the two percent false rape canard to its untrustworthy origins.
Also agreed.
>>> In addition, a massive Air Force study in 1985 studied 556 rape allegations. It found that 27% of the accusers recanted, and an independent evaluation revealed a false accusation rate of 60%. McDowell, Charles P., Ph.D. “False Allegations.” Forensic Science Digest, (publication of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations), Vol. 11, No. 4 (December 1985), p. 64.
This is a whole new can of worms. Military rape / sex assault is a unique bird – assaults are disproportionately underreported compared to the rest of the general population. Recanting rates are also much higher than the general population, but as I’m sure you’re aware, this may not necessarily be because the allegations are universally untrue. Women in the military are under a unique pressure to fit in with their comrades. You’re citing a 1985 study, I’ll cite one from the last few years, via TIME magazine:
“The Pentagon’s latest figures show that nearly 3,000 women were sexually assaulted in fiscal year 2008, up 9% from the year before; among women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, the number rose 25%. When you look at the entire universe of female veterans, close to a third say they were victims of rape or assault while they were serving — twice the rate in the civilian population. … The Pentagon estimates that 80% to 90% of sexual assaults go unreported, and it’s no wonder. Anonymity is all but impossible; a Government Accountability Office report concluded that most victims stay silent because of “the belief that nothing would be done; fear of ostracism, harassment, or ridicule; and concern that peers would gossip.” More than half feared they would be labeled troublemakers. A civilian who is raped can get confidential, or “privileged,” advice from her doctors, lawyers, victim advocates; the only privilege in the military applies to chaplains. (See http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1968110,00.html#ixzz0hiOT75QV )
>>> … the false claims is elusive but “[t]he standard assertion by feminists that only 2 percent” or sexual assault claims “are false, which traces to Susan Brownmiller’s 1975 book ‘Against Our Will,’ is without empirical foundation and belied by a wealth of empirical data.
Agreed.
>>> … These data suggest that at least 9 percent and probably closer to half” …
That’s a rather large margin for error, wouldn’t you agree with that?
>>> And for you to stigmatize your local quarterback based on a lone accusation is frightening, unjust, and unAmerican.
Again, two accusations now. We in Pittsburgh are not so naive to think that Ben is the only rich young man – pro athlete or otherwise – who is a major tail-hound. But when you’ve been accused twice of something so vile and unsavory, either he is the unluckiest man in the world, or his pattern of behavior is partly to blame, and, at the very least, is an invitation to those who would, wrongly, sully the good name of an innocent man. And if his behavior keeps getting him into trouble, perhaps it’s time to change that behavior, even if he is, in fact, innocent of any physical crimes against women. Again, sex with strange women (or men) is Russian roulette. Sometimes you get one pregnant. Sometimes you get an STD. And sometimes, if you do it enough, someone is going to say that you raped them, even if you didn’t. It is statistically inevitable, is it not? — especially if the incidences of false rape claims are as high as you suggest.
>>> But I agree, he was damn stupid.
One last time, agreed.
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richrovs Says:
He’s from Ohio, what do you expect?
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DG Says:
@Jen – Sorry. As I hit send I actually thought “I think I remember reading something….” How about Jiminy Cricket, then.
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Pierce H. Says:
MG, when you come armed with facts, let’s talk. I won’t hold my breath. Brownmiller’s canard was long ago debunked, and everyone knows it. You’ve read the law review article I cited, haven’t you? Of course you have. The paid sexual assault grievance industry continues to cite the two percent lie, and it’s a religion to some zeolots. I gave you actual objective authorities, you gave me the equivalent of “nya-nya!” But thanks for declaring on behalf of everyone in the world that I haven’t convinced anyone. Nice to see you and every one else you speak for (the entire world) has such an open mind. (I must give you credit. You know what’s an effective argument? Declaring self-serving conclusory truths — and then telling your opponent “you lose, loser!” You’ve really mastered the art of that.)
Summer, do the words “man hater” mean anything to you? Of course they do. My, oh, my, you do have problems, don’t you? Anyway, your impassioned comment, I am sure, would go over big in a ’70s Freshman Womyn’s Studies class. Sorry to hear white men have made your life so miserable. I do hope they treat you better in the future.
There is a legal word for your assertion that rape is invariably worse than false rape claims: horseshit. There are innumerable examples of the terrible effects of false rape reports on innocent men and boys just from recent news stories. Rape lies have caused males to be killed and to kill themselves; to be incarcerated often longer than their false accusers are legally permitted to be imprisoned when their lies are finally brought to light; to lose their good names, their jobs, their businesses, their life’s savings, their wives, and their girlfriends; to be beaten, to be chased, to be spat upon, and to be looked upon with suspicion long after they are cleared of wrongdoing. It is often impossible for the falsely accused to ever obtain good employment once the lie hits the news: for the rest of his life, a falsely accused man will have prospective employers Googling his name and finding the horrid accusation. Virtually every falsely accused male will be affected by his ordeal. Many develop emotional problems that will plague them for the rest oft their lives; most will not be able to trust women, for at least a time and sometimes forever.
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OldNorthSider Says:
I think Pierce H. is actually Scott R. Preister. Get out your bitch stick Ginny and ban him too! If he is a real lawyer, Pierce should stop writing lengthy blog comments/briefs and start billing some hours. If not, unauthorized practice of the law is a punishable/criminal offense.
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done with him Says:
you said, ‘i can’t speak for others’ but actually you did speak for me and i thank you.
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OldNorthSider Says:
@ DG well said.
“He should start taking his mother with him wherever he goes. He starts getting out of line – she can slap him.”
If his mother is busy, I’ll go with him and slap him upside his head.
As a parent, I am so disappointed in Ben & his stupidity. As my wise Irish Nana used to say, “Nothing good ever happens after midnight.”
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SpudMom Says:
Wait a second.
Is there someone in here honestly trying to defend the position that a false allegation of rape is WORSE than an actual rape? Did I really read that correctly?
I would love to see this person make that argument to a room full of rape survivors. While false accusation is wrong and hurtful and effs with people’s lives, I don’t think you can possibly say it’s worse than an actual rape.
And please don’t attack me and call me names. It’s not necessary. I did not call names. Just expressed utter incomprehension of the argument.
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Tiffany Says:
so being in a bar and drinking makes a girl a slut? back to your cave bojack.
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Linda Says:
You had me at “what the hell is wrong with you?”
I feel sorry for:
1. His family
2. The Rooneys-they don’t deserve this
3. Steeler Nation
4. The kids who worship him and look up to him -
Sooska Says:
I too think Pierce is Scott R. Priester. If not SRP, then perhaps the editor of “Sexual Assaults for Fun and Profit.”
Is this 2010, or 5000 BC?
Let’s just say this: she gets the same presumption of innocence of a false claim, that Ben does for sexual assault.
If he is guilty then:
She didn’t ask to be assaulted or raped, just because she went into a bar or a club.She didn’t “ask for it” by being drunk, if she was drunk.
She wasn’t eligible to be raped by being out at 2 a.m.
She didn’t ask for sexual favors even if she was flirting with him.
She owed him nothing no matter what occurred up to that moment.
She wasn’t even a free gift to him even if she spent the evening drinking with him, “followed” him, or even made out with him.
I hope Dan Rooney survives this nightmare of watching his $100 MIL investment, the value of his franchise be dragged through the mud by his franchise’s face.
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TK Says:
# 68 “This sort of thing doesn’t happen to, say, Tom Hanks. Why is that?”
Because he’s married and lives in a state where Rita Wilson could take 50% of everything he earned during their marriage.
Either that or he’s like Mike Huckabee. Huckabee envisions that if he ever did that his wife would be standing above him after unloading a 15 round clip into him screaming to anyone who might be around, “Does anyone have any more ammo?”
Ben doesn’t have either of those things stopping him.
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Summer Says:
@ Pierce:
Oh, I abhore men. That’s why I married one and gave birth to another.
Some men are wonderful; others *ahem* are asshats.
Please don’t think you’re fooling anyone with your “poor white guys don’t get an even shake” horseshit. I don’t need to give a thesis on the subject — just pick up a history book. When you find the chapter where women and minorities are oppressing white men, get back to me.
And y’know what? Sometimes, when someone is raped … they commit suicide. Sometimes, the rape sends them into a downward spiral in which they lose everything they hold dear.
Being accused of something you didn’t do sucks. It can hurt your reputation and community standing, but it’s covered under civil law, not criminal, for a reason.
To suggest that being forced to commit sexual intimacy against your will is less horrible than having someone level a false accusation against you just shows how completely closed minded you are on the subject, so there’s no point in further debate, although throwing out invectives like “man-hater” and ranting about suspect studies seems to be more your speed.
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Typing Mom Says:
AMEN!
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RM Says:
@summer: “Being accused of something you didn’t do sucks. It can hurt your reputation and community standing, but it’s covered under civil law, not criminal, for a reason.”
Um, no. “Making false reports” is indeed in the crimes code, in every state of the union. Sometimes it’s a misdemeanor, but it’s always a crime.
@TK: >> “This sort of thing doesn’t happen to, say, Tom Hanks. Why is that?” >>> Because he’s married and lives in a state where Rita Wilson could take 50% of everything he earned during their marriage.
Riiiight. Cause married guys (Tiger Woods) never make bad decisions late at night (Tiger Woods) and, ill-advisedly, hook up with lots of girls (Tiger Woods), knowing full well that it might cost them millions (Tiger) upon millions (Woods) of dollars if their wives ever found out.
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Stan Says:
“Sex happened! Sex happened in the bathroom!”
Hey toni, how the heck do you know what happened in the bathroom…if anything at this point? Were YOU there? Are you an investigator working on the case? Didn’t thin so!
Good God! Way to speculate to the extreme!
Yeah that Ben is a real jerk because there are a ton of rumors out there to prove it and that is what this case is really all about right? That he’s a jerk.
Let’s just ignore the good things he does in the community like his work with and contribtions to Ronald McDonald House, Special Olympics, the Make-A-Wish Foundation, helping fund K-9′s for police departments through his Foundation, participating in his teammates fundraisers for their charities, camps for kids….but then bringing that stuff up is just no fun and doesn’t help the agenda at all!!
You people are incredible (and not in a good way).
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Michele Says:
@Tiffany – While being out in a bar and drinking doesn’t make a girl a slut, being out in a bar and drinking at the age of 20 does make her a criminal.
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Jen Says:
Summer, I agree with almost everything you’re saying, except about false accusations being a civil matter. I think filing a false police report or lying under oath in court would be criminal, not civil, offenses. However, those are not violent offenses, and therefore aren’t even in the same league as rape. The only thing worse than rape is murder.
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Jen Says:
Yes, Michelle, but it doesn’t give anyone the right to sexually assault her.
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Michele Says:
Jen, you are making an assumption of guilt. And, if she hadn’t broken the law, then she wouldn’t have been in that situation to begin with. It is really time for women to accept partial responsibility in “certain” situations.
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Terry Says:
Pierce is right. The alleged victim seems to get the benefit of the doubt as far as any questions about her own judgment and putting herself “in that situation”: underage and in bar/club at 2am with a man she just met (and according to more than one observer in published reports appeared to be “all over him”)? I sure didn’t read anything just yet about him dragging her kicking and screaming into a back hall or bathroom so if indeed they went together does that not make any of you question her judgment just a bit?
And as for the whole “she was only 20 years old” thing: I doubt Ben (or any man for that matter) asks for women’s I.D’s before he engages them in conversations at bars or nightclubs. That is the bouncer/manager’s job!
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Stacey Says:
Gosh, sure hope none of you break your collective necks when falling off your high horses, because from that height, you just might!
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Sooska Says:
In GA she can legally be in bar and wear a wristband indicating under age. Same in Boston.
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Jen Says:
Michelle, I’m not making an assumption of guilt, in fact, I never said she was sexually assaulted. I said drinking illegally at age 20 doesn’t give anyone the right to sexually assault her. If you drive without your seat belt and are hit by a drunk driver, sure you were breaking the law (and stupid) for not wearing a seat belt, but it doesn’t make the drunk driver any less guilty.
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linda Says:
If that bar or club is like any other, she may have gotten a wristband but most underage people who want to drink remove them. I’ve done it at most bars in the past when I was younger. I have no idea if she did, or if she had fake ID saying she was legal. Point is, none of us know what happened at this point so automatically saying Ben is guilty seems premature.
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Still A Fan Says:
please see Duke Lacrosse team.
i am a logical person. i read every email that was entered into court for the first case. the lady was bragging to her friends that she went out with Ben the next day via email. this does not make me look at case 1 any differently.
as for case #2, i dont even know how i feel until I have more info.
i’ll tell you what though – i’m really confused by a lot of the comments here. so many people said even if he didnt do it they are done with him. kids arent allowed to wear jerseys. i dont know, if he DID do it, I can understand that logic. but if he didn’t?
so, he could have been doing stuff like this every night for 5 years and you dont know it so it doesnt bother you. but because he is accused of something, it’s not enough to make me think differently.
its very very very very easy for everyone to say he shouldnt so this and he shouldnt do that and how dumb can he be. you arent in his shoes. after the first accusation, what, he has to change his entire self because somebody said he did something that he didn’t? i’m just not too caught up in the way the media sensationalizes everything. if he didnt do it, i’m not ready to act like we should be ashamed of him because he was in a college bar at 2 AM or whatever.
i dont need 80 angry replies because i’m usually down with common opinion here – but i’m not ready to tell a young man with the world at his feet that he has to sit home and play bingo with his aunt. and i get it, really, you dont have to explain perception to me or the fact that after the first time he has to be more careful….he does…but until the facts come out i’m not passing judgement on anything. maybe she drug him in there? then again maybe he picked her up and carried her in there. i dont know.
if you remember, bettis had the same thing happen to him in greensburg. it was PLANNED by a college professor! now that was one accusation. if a makeup girl from NBC claims something next week and we no zero facts, are we going to trounce bettis too because of an accuser? i’m not until i’m better informed.
if he did it i’ll be very vocal about how disappointed i am. but i’m going to wait. the worst i have him right now is a fun loving party type in the likes of joe namath. in a nutshell, i’m not a fan of someone curbing their life because of something somebody MIGHT accuse them of. live your life, dont do anything wrong, fight it if somebody says you did and you didnt.
but thats just my opinion. short version….
i’m not taking away any jerseys if all he did was go into a womens restroom with a willing girl at 2 AM in a bar. he’s 28, not 58. look at the public perception people had of tiger woods for YEARS and look who he really was. tiger woods was leading a double life. i think ben is just more like john daly. looks more like him anyway.
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Joann Says:
Let the courts decide if he or she is telling the truth.
Let the Rooney’s decide on Ben’s fate. Dump him and let the Steelers nation start over. Why spend time making excuses for gross stuidity? I’ve always thought the Rooney’s demanded more integrity of their players and themselves. Let’s find that integrity again, soon.
Ben is one of the most stupid professional athletes in existence. Actually the word professional is lost on him. I feel sorry for his parents, how embarrassed they must be to see what their son turned out to be. Every parents nightmare, a stupid, foolish child that hasn’t grown up at age 28 and is now the butt of the nation.
He really doesn’t deserve to be in the position to be a role model for anyone. Stupid.Stupid.Stupid
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Summer Says:
@ Jen & RM: You’re right; filing a false police report is criminal. I was refering to libel. My bad for not being more clear. Thanks for clearing it up.
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Stacey Says:
@Joann:
I guess you forgot about the lack of integrity of these Steelers players:
* Barrett Brooks, fleeing and eluding, reckless driving, other traffic violations.
* Najeh Davenport, domestic abuse.
* James Harrison, domestic abuse.
* Santonio Holmes, domestic abuse, possession of marijuana.
* Jeff Reed, disorderly conduct.
* Matt Spaeth, public urination.
* Cedrick Wilson, domestic abuse.
And did you say that about Bettis when he was accused of the same thing?
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Steel Maestro Says:
My thought? Since they are asking “Big” Ben for a DNA sample, that would indicate that, uh, “trace evidence” was left on the girl’s clothing.
If that’s the case, I don’t care if this was consensual or not, “Big” Ben is going to face a shit storm of bad publicity.
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Monty Says:
Plus:
* Najeh Davenport, fecal abuse of closet
* Santonio Holmes, public display of enormous dong -
Still A, Fan Says:
@monty
casey hampton – being photographed without a shirt on
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Monty Says:
@ still a, fan – if that’s a crime, then string me up. that picture was the highlight of last season for me.
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Still A, Fan Says:
“I feel sorry for his parents, how embarrassed they must be to see what their son turned out to be. Every parents nightmare”
this is what i just can’t understand unless he’s proven guilty.
right. so if he didn’t do it, he has two super bowl rings, he does a ton for charity, he makes $110 million dollars, he dedicates tds to his deceased college coach and OH MY EFFING GOD HE WENT TO A BAAAAAAR…and it was TWO. A. M. AND HE WENT INTO THE GIRLS RESTROOM with a 20 year old…….GIRL. how on earth will he ever live it down?????
ok, i can’t comment on this one any more until facts come out instead of white noise. i blame hardcopy.
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kevin Says:
Here , Here Ginny. What an absolute A$#Hole Little Bennie is. If it wasn’t for football, he’d be loading trucks somewhere. I take that back, I have admiration for the people who load trucks. You did this to yourself Bennie, Steeler Nation, your college alumni, and the city of Pittsburgh all are a little less proud of their allegience this week. By the way, what was your major Bennie? Was it communicataions? Nice Job you freakin’ moron! All I can say, is in Pittsburgh, Tiger Woods thanks you for garnering ink for all the wrong reasons. Ray Lewis Attorney??? Like the CO in Top Gun at the end of the movie when Maverick got his pick of assignments, “God Help Us”.
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Les Says:
I think a lot of you people need to read this, it may do you some good, if you can keep your minds open for that long!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-trippintuesday030910&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
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Les Says:
From Terry “and according to more than one observer in published reports appeared to be ‘all over him’”?
This is an article that mentioned one of those quotes:
Friday, as news of the assault charges broke, one of the Milledgeville bartenders said the charges against Roethlisberger were “bullsh*t” and that “she was all over him that night…. wonder why he pursued??? she saw $$$ signs.”
A bartender who said he served Roethlisberger told us:
“He was as nice as any athlete that I have ever met. People were all over him, guys and girls. His body guards kept some people away to let him have a good time. This situation is sad and I feel for the guy. He was out having a good time just like everybody else and now this is blowing up.”
http://deadspin.com/5487565/big-bens-night-out-in-millyvegas-what-the-bartenders-saw
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JJ Says:
re: #83
ummmm right, because all of the “good things” Ben did/does – primarily making monetary “contributions” and participating in “fundraisers” – as previously mentioned, is pertinent? Because it should cause some to reconsider their opinion? Because it speaks to his credibility? Decency? Whether his heart was in the right place at the time, his efforts are all for not when he demonstrates this type of irresponsible behavior, to say the very least. What he should truly be most ashamed of, guilty or not, is the number of children – the very recipients of those donations, that look up to him and idolize him – who have gone to their parents over the last week and asked “Why’s everyone mad at big Ben?”
I’ll praise Ben for the “good things” he does when he behaves like a responsible and deserving adult, grateful for the opportunities he has been afforded by our great Steeler Nation. If I were you, I wouldn’t hold my breath or anything.
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Stan Says:
So JJ, you’ve already convicted him then? You know for a fact that because of an allegation he is guilty of irresponsible behavior? Got it!
Yeah, keep that open mind.
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H Says:
@ Les – thank you for the Yahoo article link. I really wish more people would think like Mr. Silver, but alas, it’s much more fun to jump up on a moral high-horse and judge people based on rumors and preconcieved ideas.
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Les Says:
JJ, ummm, why shouldn’t it be pertinent? It is alot more pertinent than your speculation! Little full of yourself, arent’ ya?
ummmm, so what do you do for your community?
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JM Says:
I don’t know any better than anyone else what happened that night, but here’s what I perceive about Ben:
1) He’s like the college boy who, instead of trying to get a date with a woman on campus, keeps going home on weekends and hanging out at the jr high/high school dances hoping for some attention.
2) He may just be incapable of conceiving of the possibility that someone ISN’T INTERESTED in him or his seductive self. Until he can really take in that possibility, wounding though it may be to his ego, he’s setting himself up for more situations like this.
Compensatory bravado belies fragility and the reckless behavior pattern that Ben has demonstrated. He (and the rest of us) will be better off when he faces this and finally does something about it.
Just sayin.
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tm Says:
So JJ, I guess under your, uh, reasoning, we should also discount that Ben bought the youngsters of that football team (and their chaperones) plane tickets, hotel accomodations and entry fees to play in the “Dog Bowl” in LA a month ago too. Afterall, it was only money he gave so big deal, right? It is more fun trashing him, huh?
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JJ Says:
I haven’t convicted him. I stated “guilty or not” implying that I don’t know, because I don’t. I think this post was perfectly written because it doesn’t presume guilt or innocence and neither do I. However, it is simply my opinion, that the choices that lead him to this situation were irresponsible, regardless of the outcome.
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Bojack Says:
I’m starting to think most of these outraged women
condemning Ben before a shred of evidence is
presented are simply venting pent up guilt and self-loathing
for their OWN PAST DRUNKEN, SHAMEFUL, AND VILE RESTROOM-
SEX EPISODES and they now want some sort of payback from
a poor, hapless quarterback, merely on his quest for Mrs. right. -
Jennifer Rossi Says:
I loathe the day that our Steeler nation has become a mockery like the Ravens. Thanks a lot, Ben.
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Ken Says:
I don’t know tm, that sounds like a cool thing to do and maybe even a responsible adult thing to do,doing something for those kids they wouldn’t have done otherwise. But then I’m not an expert on what’s pertinent and what’s not. It’s only okay to bring up the bad stuff, helps the agenda much better.
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bucdaddy Says:
Who’s the “Asshat” NOW, bee-yotch? All I done was smoke some weed and show you my snake.
Love,
‘Tonio
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L-A Says:
spot on, once again. now, i shall read the comments. hopefully, there’s no c-word today
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L-A Says:
interesting comments, once again. Was feeling one way, then Les kinda screwed with my head. Time shall tell.
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Sofa King Says:
Summer, at least Pierce presented supporting evidence to his assertions and didn’t just spout off at the mouth with ridiculously biased b.s. As a white man, I am fairly offended by your assertion that I am, apparently, part of the problem. I’m sure you think it’s justifiable to legally and systematically oppress young white men like me via Affirmative Action and other means as recompense for the injustices done to the ancestors of others in our society, despite the fact that my ancestors weren’t even here to take part in the oppression that I’m now paying for.
Ben exercised bad judgment, no ones arguing that, but I, for one will withhold my judgment until all of the facts are presented. I am a die-hard, card-carrying member of Steeler Nation, but the holier-than-thou attitude and sense of entitlement displayed by some of the Steeler fans on this page have given me a little more insight as to why so many other fanbases despise us.
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JenOH Says:
He’s gross plain and simple. Seriously, who engages in any type of sex in a bathroom with all of those germs? {puke}
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tw Says:
Wow…this section has really taken a nasty turn. I can’t believe some of the posts I’m reading. Some here are acting as stupid as Ben. Now, I am not saying he’s guilty of either assault accusation…but I think it’s pretty fair to say he is not acting like a mature adult and his actions (late night bar hopping and turning up the libido) in the midst of a current allegation that is not yet resolved is not too bright to say the least. And as for this college student…we know absolutely nothing about her (or the situation) so I can’t believe I’m reading things here condemning her…you know NOTHING! And as for those blaming her for “breaking the law” being in a bar at age 20…seriously! Really, none of you ever went to a bar in college before you were 21..OMG! So i went and yes i drank at age 20…does that mean i was asking for it and would have deserved this backlash! Really…anyone who claims that is a hypocrite.
So by the facts…
Ben at the very least was drinking late at night and hanging with the college crowd…that is fact and yes is stupid beyond belief considering his present situation. This behavior (regardless the police outcome) affects his image, family, team, and city.The girl on the other hand…all we know for fact is that she was at a bar following Ben around. That’s it. If you want to bash her for being underage…shame on you, that’s pathetic. Just look in the mirror before you judge. Any other claims about her is not factual and stupid to assume.
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Tiffany Says:
@ Michelle, speeding is a crime too, but we still feel bad for people injured or killed in wrecks.
Being in a bar, under or over 21, drinking or not, should not be considered “asking for it”. Next people will say, well she was dressed provocative, or dancing suggestively. SO WHAT. If he did it, not saying if he did or not, because lets face it we dont know, but if he did, he is the one to blame, not her.
Jesus, havent any of you seen The Accused?
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Bojack Says:
Laying 5 to 2 odds the trollop was dressed in streetwalker attire
which says- “Do me.”3 to 1 she she’s an excellent pole dancer also.
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Bojack Says:
I wouldn’t be surprised if she is a local pro “escort” working Craigslist.
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aunt penny Says:
Rumor has it that Ben is still down south, he’s visiting Tiger and working on his ….’swing’.
Nice shirt Ben.
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attn_who_oar Says:
Ben is GUILTY in the eye of public opinion and Bloggerdom! only in America…. so sad.
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Michele Says:
Tiffany, I am not sure why you feel that vehicle accidents are comparable to sexual assault, but that is not my point. I am a victim of sexual assault. Do I think that the man was at fault? YES! Do I also think that I made bad decisions that put me in the situation to enable him to do what he did? YES! I just think it is funny that women all over the country are fighting for total equality, but yet refuse to accept any type of responsibility for choices that might have put them in a bad situation. Am I saying that any of us asked for it? NO! It is a crime that should be handled by the authorities, once a determination is made as to whether the actual crime took place.
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Politicalpartypooper Says:
If I were Ben, I would hope this girl’s father isn’t an ex-Ranger/Green Beret, or some big dude who listens to no reason when it comes to his daughter.
Because, you see, hell hath no fury like a father who thinks his little girl has been wrongfully hurt. If this girl were my daughter, and half of what the report said was true, you’d all be burying Ben on opening day instead of watching him run around in tights.
Bojack, you obviously don’t have a daughter. Tell you what…if he’s guilty, do we get to rape him with the broken end of a baseball bat? Never mind on that one.
If he’s guilty, jail will teach him all about rape. Maybe we’ll get lucky and Anderson Cooper will do a live jail shot of Benny playing the tube organ.
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bucdaddy Says:
Just let me throw this out there: What’s the worst section of Pittsburgh? I don’t know, so let’s just call it Neighborhood X.
Now let’s say that I, a wealthy white guy (play along here), put on an Armani suit and a Rolex watch and a diamond ring and fill my wallet with $100s and get into my Jaguar and drive to Neighborhood X at, say, 2 a.m. and park the Jag with the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition and go for a stroll down a dark alley near a crack house.
And let’s say I get the shit beat out of me, get my wallet and watch and ring and car and suit stolen, and wind up naked and in the hospital.
Now: Tell me I wasn’t asking for it.
Hey! It’s a city street, and I am damned well entitled to walk wherever I want and wear whatever I want when I want.
Just like you.
Right, ladies?
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Virginia Says:
Bucdaddy and Bojack,
Well, then let’s say this.
Let’s say I go to a night club. I wear a short skirt and do-me boots. I meet a guy who buys me a drink and we dance and start making out on the dance floor. I invite him back to my place where things start to get heavy, when suddenly I don’t feel right about it anymore. Perhaps something he said. Something he did. Or maybe just second thoughts on my part. I stop. I ask him to stop.
Does that mean it’s okay for him to rape me because I “was asking for it?”
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Pittsburgh Steel Man Says:
DAMN!
-Pittsburgh Steel Man
http://www.PittsburghSteelMan.com -
Bojack Says:
I was being outrageously facetious to point out the completely ludicrous notion being continually puked here that Ben was somehow at fault for being out at a bar– ergo–
‘HE was asking for it.’
Get it?
And, @Summer> very quaint ghetto-speak: “my bad”
Are you a bleeding heart white chick apologist? -
IHaveKasparaitis Says:
Rape and sexual assault is *NEVER* the victim’s fault. And you are hurting the people out there who have been violated mentally, physically, and emotionally by saying they asked for it. No one wants to be raped; no one wants their space violated in such a heinous way. She says no any time during the act, it means stop and you are violating them. Also, you are more at risked from being raped by someone you know than a stranger but risk is still there.
If I was out having fun with my friends and someone drugged my drink, it’s rape. If I go with a guy, make out and don’t want to go further but he insists against my will, it is rape. It doesn’t matter if I am walking around in lingerie and hooker heels. It’s unwanted and no person who is assaulted should ever be blamed. There are kids get abused and sexually assaulted by adults they are supposed to trust; they aren’t to be blamed for the sick twisted jerks that get kicks out of having every bit of control over the other person. Sexual assault and rape can happen to anyone regardless of race, social status, marital status, income, lifestyle, and gender. (Many statistics show men are increasingly becoming victims of this but are afraid to admit it because of society saying men never turn down sex.)
“We know that about 15 percent of these claims end in conviction” That’s because first the women are shocked by the ordeal don’t want to testify in front of the aggressor and the courts are lenient with the men who commit them. It’s not far to say by this statistic that has been analyzed a million times by people who care for victims, who are non-profit, that the victim feels they are in jail while the attacker holds the keys to their freedom. It is outrageous that you would even consider pointing fingers and saying all the allegations that have been courageously brought forth are fiction, made up stories to smear someone else. No. Have you ever talked to women or men who have been sexually abused? Do you realize all the depressions and blaming that goes on and how much they fear the attacker again when he/she isn’t given a sentence deserving of someone who completely violated and destroyed their sanctity of mind and the purity they have. This victim is innocent until proven otherwise just as much as Big Ben is. I have defended Big Ben since the first interception he threw and the last ball he could have thrown away but lost yards, but I cannot look at him knowing victims, hearing their stories and think anything other than he’s dirty and disgusting. I don’t believe in it, and no one should tell me otherwise. You are giving more rights to the alleged attacker than the victim who is suffering enough duress by reporting it in the first place, to involve police, get a rape test, deal with the accusations that she’s a money-grabbing whore, deal with people judging her for bringing this to light, having to look him in the eyes and account what happened in court. I give the victim the benefit of the doubt any day. Any day. I am not saying Ben is guilty, the courts will decide, but to say she could have done anything to prevent this is immature, rude, and condescending. He could keep it in his pants, and he could listen to her saying no to his advances. What could she have done? Maybe she wore pants and a t-shirt, he approaches her, she says no, and he continues to grope her. Her fault? I think not.
I don’t understand how you can sit here and blame someone who has had her private space exploited when she did nothing wrong. If the courts find him innocent, then we have another issue here with her tarnishing the little reputation gained by people who fight to protect victims of sexual abuse and assault. Either way, society needs to realize what all the victim suffers.
[Sorry this was so long, I just really have issues with sexual assault and how society views it as the victim asking for it and not what controlling, manipulative creeps the victimizers are. Sexual assault is serious, and when I hear about it, I take the cases seriously.]
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Bojack Says:
@Virginia-
HELL NO. You are a happily married Mom, and the daughter of a Minister and a respected journalist, therefore a nice girl. Luv the mental pic tho.
ps- Did you ever pole dance?
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Michelle Says:
This whole topic, and the comments that have followed it, just make me sad. I will not say whether or not I believe Ben is innocent or guilty, because honestly, I don’t know. I have not researched the issue, so I will not sit here and blindly run my mouth off for either side.
What I will say, however, is that I really think people need to stop judging (on either side) without knowing the facts. Maybe he did it, maybe he didn’t and the girl was lying for some reason…unless you were there, or unless you are the person assigned to study and research the case, you won’t know for sure, now will you? I do not agree with, nor do I understand in any way, how some people are saying that, regardless of Ben’s innocence or guilt, they are done with him forever, that he is forever “tainted” in their minds. If he was innocent, why on Earth would you want to continue punishing the guy? If he was guilty though, I will understand, and you can stop reading this comment now.
Anyway, being someone who adores and loves a particular singing superstar (who I choose not be name), I have seen first hand the massive damage that this type of blind judging can do to a person. When this individual was accused of very, very, very heinous crimes, people everywhere immediately said, “He is the Devil, and we hate him. We don’t care if he really did it or not, the accusation is enough.” Well, it turns out that the poor man didn’t do it. The evidence, or really the lack thereof, showed his innocence. However, and this is a BIG however, people didn’t care. Until the day he died (and even after the fact), people ran his name down with the horrible tags of a crime he never committed: Child Molester. Pedophile. Pervert. How do you think that felt to be him? To have people spit at him and mock him for the rest of his life because one person decided to destroy him for money? No matter what came out, or how many times he cried out, “I am innocent!”…nothing mattered. To the world, they had stuck their fingers in their ears and said, “No matter what you say, we will not believe you because we say you did it. Anything you say to the contrary is only you covering your tracks.” They would not even allow themselves to consider the possibility that what they believed was wrong.
Keeping this in mind, I’d like you to take that example and apply it to this. For the rest of Ben’s life, he may very well have a tag attached to him (Assaulter, Rapist, whatever) that he may or may not have earned. Again, if he earned it, then that’s the end of that. I want to clarify, just in case, that I am in NO WAY trying to say that a girl EVER “deserves” to be raped. Okay? I’m a girl myself – why would I ever think that it’d be okay for a guy to rape someone? All I’m saying is, remember that there is a chance that maybe, just maybe, Ben isn’t the perpetrator here. I do know of females who are…how would you say…gold diggers? I know females who would do something (like sleep with a guy) and then lie about it to get something out of it (like money). It’s not like people like that don’t exist…I’m sure everybody has known at least one person like that in their lives.
So, in case my point didn’t get across earlier: I am not saying Ben is guilty or not guilty. I will not speculate on it. What I am asking is for people to keep an open mind, and let the truth come out. If Ben did do what he is accused of doing, then let him suffer the punishments. But if he did NOT do what he is accused of, then you should not just say “Sorry, but you were accused of it, so I am done with you anyway, I don’t care if you really did it or not,” because that is highly unfair. That’s all, nothing more, nothing less. Just let the truth come out, and please judge accordingly.
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Maria in Pgh Says:
As far as women “asking for it” because of how they dress, go to bars late, etc. I offer these Absolutely 100% Guaranteed Tips to Prevent Rape*:
If a woman is drunk, don’t rape her.
If a woman is walking alone at night, don’t rape her.
If a women is drugged and unconscious, don’t rape her.
If a woman is wearing a short skirt, don’t rape her.
If a woman is jogging in a park at 5 am, don’t rape her.
If a woman looks like your ex-girlfriend you’re still hung up on, don’t rape her.
If a woman is asleep in her bed, don’t rape her.
If a woman is asleep in your bed, don’t rape her.
If a woman is doing her laundry, don’t rape her.
If a woman is in a coma, don’t rape her.
If a woman changes her mind in the middle of or about a particular activity, don’t rape her.
If a woman has repeatedly refused a certain activity, don’t rape her.
If a woman is not yet a woman, but a child, don’t rape her.
If your girlfriend or wife is not in the mood, don’t rape her.
If your step-daughter is watching TV, don’t rape her.
If you break into a house and find a woman there, don’t rape her.
If your friend thinks it’s okay to rape someone, tell him it’s not, and that he’s not your friend.
If your “friend” tells you he raped someone, report him to the police.
If your frat-brother or another guy at the party tells you there’s an unconscious woman upstairs and it’s your turn, don’t rape her, call the police and tell the guy he’s a rapist.
Tell your sons, god-sons, nephews, grandsons, sons of friends it’s not okay to rape someone.
Don’t tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape.
Don’t imply that she could have avoided it if she’d only done/not done x.
Don’t imply that it’s in any way her fault.
Don’t let silence imply agreement when someone tells you he “got some” with the drunk girl.
Don’t perpetuate a culture that tells you that you have no control over or responsibility for your actions. You can, too, help yourself.*NOTE: I didn’t write this list — it’s been circulating on the Internet for years.
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Tiffany Says:
Michele, while I am sorry for the assault you suffered, I find your logic flawed. Just my opinion. A relative was assaulted and molested as a child. She did nothing to encourage the behavior or put herself in a bad situation. Women do deserve equality, but that does not mean they have to take blame for crimes committed against them. Many woman are assaulted in their own homes, by people they know, and saying they “allowed it to happen, encourage, or enable the situation, just takes the responsibility off the offender. It is not a gender thing, in my opinion, it is a matter of logic. The offenders could be female, and I would say the same thing.
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Trish Says:
@Michelle–it’s pretty obvious who you’re writing about, but I’d also note that after everything happened you never heard about him being around any children other than his own. He may have been eccentric but it doesn’t mean he was stupid.
The thing that’s always struck me about Ben, long before all this reared up, is that he seems to have a massive sense of entitlement. I can still remember the draft and seeing his scowl as he fell further down–granted, he went number 11 which is still pretty high but before the draft most “experts” fully expected him to go top five. Why did he fall? Many cited his inability to take coaching or responsibility for bad decision-making. That got drowned out in the excitement of his first two seasons, but after that we’ve all seen numerous examples of those observations. He obviously enjoys being a very big fish in a very small pond, whether that pond’s in Pennsylvania or Georgia. Why go to Atlanta, a big city where no one would look at him twice, when he could go to a dinky college town and have everyone go OMG LOOK BEN ROETHLISBERGER!!11!? Not only that, but to bring his “bodyguards” and make a big show of having a “VIP” section? Attention whore much, Ben?
However this turns out, Ben’s rep is ruined. He can expect to hear catcalls of “Rapistberger” for the rest of his career. And all because he had to figuratively yell “look at me! Look at me!” Way to go, dumbass.
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Politicalpartypooper Says:
@ Bojack,
“I wouldn’t be surprised if she is a local pro “escort” working Craigslist.”
That statement is you asking to have your teeth kicked in by one of her relatives.
So…is it okay if they gang up on you and do that? I mean, all things considered, you DID ask for it.
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tehamy Says:
I’m sorry, but this discussion has turned into far more than a discussion about Ben and his current issue. Personally, I am appalled that there are people out there that believe that a woman “asks” to get raped or sexually assualted. It doesn’t matter what a woman does, says or wears. If at any point she decides that she no longer wants to participate in whatever sexual activity that is going on, that is her choice and forcing her to continue is sexual assualt.
It is shocking to me that there a people out there who don’t believe or agree with that.I can tell you one thing for certain. Part of my job as a mother is raise my son in such a manner that he respects every person he meets. Part of that respect is to listen when a woman (or anyone for that matter) says “NO” to anything. Not, “well she said no, but did you see those 4 inch heals and skirt that barely covered her ass? She said no, but meant yes.” If my son grows up and shares the opinions of some of the “men” who have left comments here, I will consider myself a failure as a mother.
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Bojack Says:
@PolPooper- lotta talk from you nutsack, take a Xanax
@EVERYBODY who speed reads and doesn’t get the jist-
(that’s JIST, with no “z”), (I digress)
^^^OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY FOR 2 POSTS NOW**
MY point is, that for ALL OF YOU TO CAST NEGATIVE, (as in ‘he shouldn’t have been there,’ ‘poor judgement’, etc, LET ALONE
a rush to judgement based on a false prior accusation is…now SLOW DOWN AND PLEASE CATCH THIS PART******
EQUALLY, as in> = = = = =
“AS bad AS:”
*drum roll*
“Saying she, (any she or he,) was ASKING FOR IT!!!!”
(ever)
Ta Da!!!!
*takes bow*
(Gawwd, swearing is SOO much more efficient )
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butcher's dog Says:
Anyone else hoping the next post is about pigeons and how nasty they are for shitting on people? As Hamlet tells Horatio: Something too much of this.
Ben’s weekend: yet another reason to love hockey (and hockey players). Give me the humble heroes any day.
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Michele Says:
@ Tiffany
That’s why in my original post, I stated in “certain” situations. This situation is in no way comparable to a child being molested or a woman raped after a break in or being pulled off a street.
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Tiffany Says:
So women should just cower at home? A woman should have the freedom to go where ever she wants without the fear of assault.
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Scott Says:
It amazes me how Pittsburgh idolizes its gladiators. Roethlisberger doesn’t get paid to be a pillar of the community. He’s jock party animal who’s used to females fawning all over him and has all the money he needs to defend himself when he has a lapse in judgment.
He’s lucky he’s not a poor 28-year-old black man from Georgia, because if he were he’d be in the slammer now unable to make bail and praying for a decent public defender.
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Michele Says:
@ Tiffany… REALLY? That is what you are getting. How about that is the same thing everyone seems to be saying about Ben. He is 28 and rich and should know better, so why didn’t he just stay home and stay out of trouble.
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Tiffany Says:
Michele, I could give two shits about Ben. I am far more concerned about the permissions you are giving to men in general to blame women for the crimes men commit against them.
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Amadi Says:
The whole argument of “she shouldn’t have been there, shouldn’t have been drinking, shouldn’t have been wearing that outfit, shouldn’t have been flirting, therefore she’s partly responsible” is valid only for those who are desperate to believe that the overwhelming reason why rape occurs is because some men just can’t “control” themselves when presented with opportunity and if women would just stop providing those opportunities, all would be well.
We know that this is false. This is demonstrably false on its face, but it also brings up the question: why are so many men so very invested in trying to spread the blame for the behavior of rapists.
No one has responsibility for anyone else’s actions. Women don’t make men rape them. They do not ask for it. By definition, it’s impossible. The ultimate responsibility for preventing rape lay with men, when they make the decision not to rape anyone. It’s not that difficult. You simply decide that women are entitled to the same respect of their bodies and bodily autonomy as you are, and treat them accordingly.
As for Ben, comporting himself in a better fashion — not hanging out with college aged girls in a college town in college bars — would have been a good idea to begin with, but even more because of the earlier allegation. (And it would take a few pages to discuss the reasons why that first woman went the route of a civil suit and not criminal charges, not the least of which is the slut-shaming misogynistic responses that we’ve seen a glimpse of here.) When you have an air of suspicion upon you, you use a little wisdom and give up the bar crawling and the one night stands and the hookups and you don’t put yourself into circumstances where there can be any question that your partner(s) have given anything less than enthusiastic consent to whatever you engage in together. Can enthusiastic consent happen in a public restroom? Sure it can. Is enthusiastic consent usually followed by a trip to an ER for an invasive forensic exam and a police report? No, it’s not.
This is a time when Ben should’ve manned up, looked at all that he represents and all the good that he does and started acting in a fashion that showed that he valued that. He should’ve done that after the first allegation. He should have done that after the pig-stupid motorcycle crash. He has another opportunity now, but now it very well may be too late.
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Bojack Says:
@Amadi>
Amadi wrote-
“…Is enthusiastic consent usually followed by a trip to an ER for an invasive forensic exam and a police report? No, it’s not.”It IS if she’s looking for a $$$ payoff!
refer to accuser “A”
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Sofa King Says:
One of my good female friends is a rape victim, as was a girl that I dated a few years back, so I have seen firsthand the lasting scars that rape victims have to bear for many, many years. That being said, I am very sensitive to the fact that every false rape claim that is filed, whether it be with the intention of getting money, ruining one’s reputation, etc., denigrates real victims who are truly suffering.
No one “asks for it,” as all reasonable men should abide by “no means no,” and should behave accordingly. That being said, I can imagine that sometimes there is occasionally some contributory negligence on the part of the accuser. When I was in my partying phase a few years back, it never ceased to amaze me how some women, after a few drinks or no drinks at all, would be willing to leave a bar with a complete stranger and entrust that stranger with their safety for the rest of the night. Most men that I know are respectable and wouldn’t take advantage, but women need to realize that there are a lot of a-holes out there with less noble intentions.
Likewise, not all women have noble intentions, either. A few years ago, one of the regulars at a bar I was working at cornered me when I was getting off work and asked me to walk her home. Since she was friends with some of the staff and looked in poor condition to take care of herself, I agreed to. When we got to her house, I tried to leave her at the front door and she asked me to come in because it was dark and she didn’t feel safe. Again, I obliged, and before I could even get the light on, she had stripped down to just her panties and literally threw herself at me. I admit, I really wanted to get down to business with her, but I decided it wasn’t right, so I got up and left. What thanks did I get for acting respectably? She blew me off and acted huffy toward me every time she came in, and made jokes about me to her friends.
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3weasels Says:
Monday was “sports day” at my daughter’s school. She insisted that she was wearing her #7 jersey, I insisted otherwise. A meltdown ensued and the jersey is now in timeout.
She eventually left the house in her Stanley cup t-shirt and Steelers running suit.
I think it would have been easier if I could have explained why I didn’t want her to wear it. But that isn’t a conversation to have with a 4-yr old while getting ready to leave for school. Saying that he wasn’t nice to a girl would have been met with a lot of questions and not enough time to fully explain.
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Mac S. Says:
Strawman argument Bojack – and anyone else saying that a 28-year-old professional football player with millions of dollars, handlers, agents, bodyguards, etc, etc should be excused for his repeated instances of poor judgment and entitlement attitude because *gasp* daring to say you don’t like him because of said pattern now is equal to saying “she deserves what she got”.
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Bojack Says:
@Mac S.-
Read it again, more S-L-O-W-L-Y,
Mac S. wrote- “…of his repeated instances of poor judgement….”
He has EVERY right, the SAME right, to be out at the same venue, drinking as she did!
To say HE used POOR judgement and is therefore somehow at fault is EQUAL TO saying SHE used POOR judgement and ‘asked for it!’
poor judgement. -
NewBurgher Says:
Ginny – please write about pigeons … please?
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Mac S. Says:
Bojack, per the norm, missing the point AGAIN-
RE- READ SLOOOOWWWLLLLY I wrote: “daring to say you don’t like him because of said pattern now is equal to saying “she deserves what she got”
See, you ignore the argument and attack a false equivalent = Strawman.
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H Says:
@Trish –
Ben was in Atlanta celebrating his brithday just two days before this happened, so that should blow your big-fish-small-pond theory. He was in Milledgeville that night because he has a vacation home nearby.He takes bodyguards with him when he goes out because some nutjob shoved a gun in his face when he was leaving a bar his rookie season.
But by all means, ignore common sense and keep throwing stones. I know that seems to be every Ben-haters favorite pastime right now, so I wouldn’t want you to be deprived.
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Lauren Says:
There’s a difference between a 20 year old college student out at a bar partying at 2 a.m. and a 28 year old MULTI-MILLIONAIRE quarterback with a PENDING SEXUAL ASSAULT CASE being out at a bar partying at 2 a.m. It’s called maturity, and it’s the big reason why a lot of people here are disappointed in Ben. They’re not making any judgments about guilt or innocence, they’re upset that Ben has found himself in this situation AGAIN because he still thinks he’s in college and that he’s God’s gift to humanity.
I don’t care what the girl did, how she was dressed, or how illegal her presence in the bar was. Ben put himself into a situation that a 28 year old with his responsibilities (and yes, he has them, I’m sure they’re written into his contract)should not be in. This girl doesn’t have his pay grade, nor his responsibilities. To equate the two of them (well, to equate ANY 20 year old to a 28 year old) makes no sense.
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bucdaddy Says:
Virginia et. al.,
You may have missed my point under the sarcasm. In my ludicrous example, I may not have ASKED to get beaten and robbed — of course I didn’t — but my DRESS and my BEHAVIOR and my sheer STUPIDITY put me in an extreme position where something very bad happened to me. I can say I’m a “victim” in much the same sense as some chick who winds up in a bar bathroom with a 6-4, 280-pound jock, and it’s true, I am. But you know what? If I put myself IN that position, then how much is MY responsibility for what happens to ME?
Just like y’all are going on and on about how Bennie OUGHT to have more sense than to hang out in college bars, I OUGHT to have more sense than take my Rolex and my Jag into Neighborhood X AND girls who dress slutty and hang out in slutty bars and wind up in restrooms with huge jocks OUGHT to have more sense.
To state it plainly: If you DON’T want to get raped (who does?) or accused of rape (who does?) and if you DON’T want to get beaten and robbed (who does?), there are ways to dress and places to go and ways to behave that minimize the possibility that you will wind up the victim of a crime. If you choose to ignore that, then you must accept SOME personal responsibility, however small, for what happens to you.
That does NOT equate with “asking for it,” but it sure equates with “what the hell were you thinking?” And if you feel free to ask that of Bennie, why is it not OK to ask that of the girl?
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Monty Says:
Getting drunk and having consensual sex = not a crime
Raping someone in a bathroom = crime
I assume we can all agree that if he raped her, he should go to prison.
But everyone is getting caught up in the “asking for it” argument. I can’t believe anyone here really believes that how she dressed or whether she drank at the age of 20 is relevant to whether a crime was committed. Rather, it’s been raised in a somewhat ham-handed attempt to draw a parallel to whether BR should be pre-judged (i.e., if she can be excused for exercising bad judgment, then why can’t he). There is perhaps some merit to the argument (and it is of course predicated on no crime having been committed), but let’s be honest, we’re dealing with an unbelievably incendiary issue on a blog run by a woman and populated by masses of women and attempting to draw awkward parallels like is only going to incite negative visceral reactions.
And, frankly, what is the point? Anyone arguing that people shouldn’t make conclusions without knowing the facts is being more than a bit naive. People are going to make assumptions based on a variety of factors, including gender, personal experiences, religion, etc. That’s a fact of life. I think Michael Jackson was a pedophile. I recognize that wasn’t proven in court. But it doesn’t mean I still don’t think the guy was a complete creep and, in my heart of hearts, I think he molested children. Of course I may be wrong, but you can’t convince me of that. You can’t convince someone that their instincts are wrong without cold hard facts, and the odds of ever getting cold hard facts regarding a potential crime like this are slim to non. Not going to happen. So, even if he didn’t do it, this will turn some people against him. Those feelings can’t be invalidated based on what anyone else is going to say, especially over the internet. It is what it is. Spending energy on trying to convince someone to change their opinion of someone else is completely futile. And now everyone is amped up over a bunch of typed words.
This whole topic needs an enema so we can move on.
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Kat Says:
My gut check on this – I call bullshit. I would be willing to bet my Louis Vuitton on the fact that whatever happened in that bathroom was not a crime. Who hasn’t at some point in there 20s had a little (or wanted to have a little) bathroom fun?? Add the fact that she is 20 yet still at a bar (in a wristband – sure) and is partying it up with a celeb pro-baller?? Come on. If it wasn’t Ben then this thing would have been done over the weekend. These are not the kinds of cases that anything ever comes of.
I am not saying blame the victim, I am just saying that if it doesn’t look like a victim or smell like a victim, then it probably isn’t a victim. Let’s all just get over it.
His hiring a lawyer should not to be taken as anything more than prudent. If Ben were your younger brother you would want the biggest baddest attorney you could buy too. No matter what his client roster.
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unsatisfied Says:
is ben guilty of this crime?
I don’t know.
did this young lady make a false claim?
I don’t know.
what I do know is that if ben is guilty of anything, it was wearing that douchebag shirt.
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toni Says:
Dera Stan….they are taking DNA…ie body fluids were spilt. For reference read up on Monica Lewinsky’s blue dress. Clintons weapon of choice was a cigar with Monica as a humidor…tho THAT was consensual. Or did you also believe that body fluids + cigar = “I did not have sex with that woman”???
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Scott Says:
@Bojackass,
You have way too much time on your hands.
Also, suggest you speak with your physician about tweaking the meds a bit. They don’t appear to be working as intended.
Finally, your long-winded diatribe apology from the other day doesn’t hold much water when you flame the boards a day later with a baker’s dozen of your trademark observations.
Google Scott R. Priester.
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Pittsburgh Perambulations Says:
Oh my gosh, I think there should have been a comment moderation enabled on this post.
I was going to leave a short statement about the concept of “being above reproach,” and the inevitable position of being a role model when in the public spotlight.
But instead I just want to look at half of these commenters and in light of not what your position is but how you are arguing it, I just want to say:
Shame on you.
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Art Says:
Just a heads up, but the gentleman posting by the ID of Pierce is posting the exact same BS elsewhere on the net:
He also blogs here:
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Art Says:
Just to add, the False Rape Society blog links directly to this post.
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BethH Says:
I had the opportunity to observe up close and personal the athlete/party circuit for about a year…and one thing never ceased to amaze me: The guys (married and single) who were looking for action made EVERY effort to make sure there was nothing misconstrued between them and a potential hook-up. More than one of these athletes/sports media people actually had the woman he was intending to hook up with in the very near future talk with someone in his entourage and CONFIRM what she was going to do and give that person her contact information; the entourage person usually gave her his number too, as if to vouch for his boy. Obviously, not foolproof, but it’s something more than most people do. I’ve also witnessed more than once friends of athletes tell their stud-athlete-friend that the woman he was with was too drunk and actually had the woman removed from the area or the party or the hotel — much to the athlete’s disappointment (and, in one instance, resulting in a punch to the face of the friend). I also am aware of times when the athlete would actually ask someone else to be IN the car or the bathroom or the hotel room or kitchen or wherever — just to have a “witness”. In fact, I was on a date with a guy who was part of a group of athletes, and one of his athlete friends asked him to do just this — be a “witness” — so we did…and it was stunning to me that the girl okayed this (though maybe having a female in the room helped?), and to this day I still don’t know how I feel about playing that role, but I have to hand it to the athlete — savvy move. I asked the guy what he would’ve done if his friend had started to get out of line…and he said without hesitation that he would’ve stopped him — and apparently had more than once when things got “questionable.”
I certainly have no knowledge of this case, but I can tell you that if Ben had asked any of his football or other sports brethren, he would’ve received A LOT of advice about how to avoid what, at the very best for him, is a he said/she said thing beyond being told “don’t go to college bars,” which, frankly, isn’t going to work. Whoever was with him that night should be feeling very, very ashamed as well (I’m looking at you Willie Colon…)
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Carol Says:
@139 Tehamy: Absolutely agreed. Very good post.
@163 Pittsburgh Perambulations:
“I just want to look at half of these commenters and in light of not what your position is but how you are arguing it, I just want to say:Shame on you.”
This.
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JenEngland Says:
Sigh, I was trying to resist joining in. BUT…
I have to (gasp-believe me I”m as shocked as anyone) agree with one thing bojackass has said, and that is that a false rape accusation/conviction is devastating–as devastating in some cases as actual rape. An innocent person spending a decade or more in prison is a terrible, terrible thing. Rape has also been an accusation used historically to punish African American men for acting “above their station” and has resulted in many lynchings. So its not something to be taken lightly when it happens. And that is my feminist opinion, so you can cut the man hating BS talk to discredit all opinions that don’t jibe with yours Bojack.HOWEVER…
However, as others have pointed out, to bring up false rape accusations as a way to mitigate this woman’s claims is really a false analogy. I’m going to quote Newsweek Blogger for this one: “I could understand this kind of caveat if what happened at Duke in 2006 were the tip of the iceberg, not an aberration in a year when the FBI determined that 92,455 forcible rapes had occurred—a number most agree is too low due to underreporting.” http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thehumancondition/archive/2010/03/09/ben-roethlisberger-questioned-in-sexual-assault-again-some-accusers-lie-but-fewer-than-you-think.aspx So just because there are false rape accusations doesn’t negate the severity of the charge. Just as the fact that there are real rapes doesn’t negate the severity of the effect of false rape accusations. (And acquittal or failure to charge doesn’t mean a rape didn’t happen btw.)
There is so much more to say, so many really good points have been made but ultimately as someone (bucdaddy?) said, it comes down to gut. Ben is forever tainted in my mind (I’ve honestly been pretty disillusioned with him based on the repeated reports that he doesn’t tip and expects freebees) and I think a lot of people feel the same way. Ginny has captured many of our unchecked gut reaction to this story. This may be the end of the gravy train for Ben simply because too many people are just too fed up with his BS.
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RJQ Says:
Here’s a story for ya’ll:
Group of girls are out partying. One goes off with a guy she met that night. She engages in sex with the guy. Haze. Girl comes running to friends saying she was raped. Friends call police. Police take girl to hospital to administer rape kit. Hospital confirms sexual contact of some degree. Girl goes to police station with friends. Friends sit in separate room while friend makes statement. Police find guy. Guy is from good family with lots of money. Hours later, friends read girl’s statement. Girl recants her rape claim due to the fact that guy stopped within a time threshold (there is one in some states) of her saying to stop (the police explained the time threshold to her and she understood it, but we’d never heard of that before.) Guy goes free. Girl not charged. Was girl raped? According to the law, NO. According to her, YES.
This girl was taken to the hospital, rape kit administered, and Ben suspected. I would be surprised if there was not sexual contact of some sort in Ben’s case. Neither the hospital nor the police would be involved. I’m not saying he’s guilty, but it doesn’t look good.
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JenEngland Says:
Oh, Pierce. Or whoever. You know who I’m talking to. Sorry 165 comments is a lot to keep track of. Oh it’s 2 ppl. Sorry. I have been trying to work but this discussion has been kicking around the back of my brain bothering me all day. I came back to post after reading most of it before work this morning.
One other thing…
The summer before my senior year in college a man entered my house and raped my room mate while I slept in the room next door. I woke up to police with their guns drawn searching my house. We left the door unlocked routinely, so he just walked in and walked back out. Two months later he broke-me having at least learned that lesson- in through the sliding door in back and tried to rape me. Stupid things we did: Leave the door open. Not bar the sliding door with the weak lock. Not move out (me, she actually did move out). Walk around our neighborhood at night, alone as if we were invincible. The knowledge that we “acted foolishly” or recklessly or whatever others call it, actually didn’t need to be pointed out to us. We knew. It made it worse. We understood that our youthful foolishness not only endangered us but ACTUALLY resulted in violence against us. This girl is no doubt wishing she made better choices or even just different choices. But, not to be trite, hind site is 20/20 and anyone who is lucky enough to survive all their foolish choices unscathed shouldn’t cast stones at those who don’t. The thing is though, you learn from your mistakes and become wiser and make better choices. What I think a lot of folks are saying is that regardless of the veracity of this charge, Ben probably should have learned from his original foolish choices and start to make some real big boy decisions now.
Ok, back to work. Hopefully the demons of this discussion are now exercised from my brain…
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Xena Says:
I agree with everything Ginny said.
But I also think that the fact the young woman’s family has hired an attorney looks a lot like they are lining up the civil suit–before there are any results from the criminal investigation. So I think that fact a least counterbalances the “Ray Lewis defense attorney” part of this debacle.
For all the Ben defenders: only an idiot makes a habit of getting roaring drunk and having his entourage send “girls” that no one knows back to the party going on in the private room.
For the people who think that a false rape accusation is nothing: tell that to the people who have done prison time because someone told a story that wasn’t true. False accusers are the ones who diminish the suffering of real sexual assault victims.
And sexual assault may not equal “rape” or forcible penetration. I guess we just wait until we see what the police turn up. I do think it will help Ben that part of his entourage includes a police officer and a PA state trooper. That might tip the scales heavily into “he said, she said” territory. But at some point, Ben clearly needs a big consequences to get him to look at how he is living his life, because he’s throwing it all away. And frankly, I’d rather the team cut him loose if he’s not going to change his ways.
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Art Says:
I would like to add something regarding the family of the accuser highering a lawyer. The family’s lawyer is there (for now) to protect the identity of the girl. Many in Steeler Nation are angry, and have lashed out at Ben’s accuser. I believe some would even go as far as threaten her or her family (just take a trip to SteelerFury.com forums). While I believe Ben to be an immature douchebag, I am withholding my judgment at least until charges are filed.
With that said, you must understand that the statement released by the accuser’s lawyers was a subtle reminder to the public in Milledgeville that Georgia has shield laws to protect the identity of rape victims. I am not saying Ben raped this girl, nor am I saying those are the charges he might face. I am saying that for now, the lawyers are requesting anonymity. Here is the pertinent law:
“16-6-23. Publication of the name or identity of female raped or
assaulted with intent to commit rape.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any news media or any other person to
print and publish, broadcast, televise, or disseminate through any other
medium of public dissemination or cause to be printed or published,
broadcast, televised, or disseminated in any newspaper, magazine,
periodical, or other publication published in this state or through any
radio or television broadcast originating in the state the name or
identity of any female who may have been raped or upon whom an assault
with intent to commit the offense of rape may have been made.
(b) This Code section does not apply to truthful information disclosed
in public court documents open to public inspection.
(c) Any person or corporation violating this Code section shall be
guilty of a misdemeanor.”http://www.lectlaw.com/files/sex06.htm
This is why the university and sorority have acted to end the rumors being spread around the campus. They are covering their collective back sides, just in case.
On the bright side, my wife and I have decided to make this latest accusation against Ben (coupled with the previous one in Reno) a learning experience with our 15 year old son. We gave him that talk two years ago, and this instance only brings home the fact that the decision to pursue sexual relations has lifetime consequences…be it the creation of new life, the contraction of a disease, or the legal consequence of being a sex offender.
If you don’t want to be falsely accused, don’t dip you wick if you don’t know the chick. Communication should always come before foreplay.
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H Says:
@ Xena
According to several interviews done by the media with others in the bars that night, Ben was not roaring drunk. There has actually been more than one article talking about how in control he actually seemed to be. Some bartenders have said that they served him alcohol, while others have said that he only drank water. -
DISAPPOINTED and Pi*#ed! Says:
Ben, B
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DISAPPOINTED and Pi*#ed! Says:
Ben, Ben, Benny, Benny Benny (Shaking my head)….well you let me down. You let my daughters down (ages 12 and 15) who have grown up believing Steeler Nation is about community and pride. More importantly you let your employers, teammates, and a city of fans down. I too am not passing judgment on your innocence or guilt. I am passing judgment on YOUR Judgment and Priorities!! I think we’ve given you one too many chances.
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Baraboo Says:
I just checked Ben’s site and forum to see if anything new might be up and being discussed and see the forum has been taken down.
Doesn’t that kind of stuff just make him look more guilty?
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Bojack Says:
@Baraboo-
Sure! Along with the current moon phase, and whether your dog happened to choose a bush on the the left side of the path instead of the right to pee, and today’s UV index, probly
a GREAT indicator of guilt……..Do you drive a car?
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LaReina Says:
What the effy, the Pa. taxpayers have been paying state troopers to serve as Benny’s “assistants”? They’re not bodyguards, so is that like wingmen?
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Dan (Not Onarato) Says:
You can say what you want…stupid decisions…lack of judgement…youre disappointed in him etc etc etc and dont get me wrong I agree with that and think hes a total tool BUT, as sad as it is, he will be on the field in the fall because he can throw a football. Its really sad…bordering on pathetic.
Also, you cant fault Willie Colon at all, but he couldnt protect Benny during the season from defensive linemen let alone a 20 year old sorority member…dont get me wrong…sorority chicks can be tough…
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Mary Says:
My husband and I had a lengthy discussion about this with a fellow Steeler fan the other night, and you so perfectly captured the point we were trying to make.
The whole thing is just…ugh.
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Sheila Says:
agree with Dan(not Onorato)- if in the end this ends up against Ben (& I’m not saying that it will), lets harken back to the days of James Harrison & Cedrick Wilson assaulting their girlfriends/babymamas. Which one was let go by the Steelers and which one is still playing? Do you really think Harrison was spared b/c his girlfriend wouldn’t let their kid get baptized as Mr. Rooney so eloquently explained?!
If this one needs to be explained it can be and Ben will stay. With a damaged reputation maybe but he will still be a Steeler.
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Dana Says:
CDAN got a shot in too, very much to Ginny’s sentiment.
http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2010/03/what-is-sexual-contact.html
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Natural Red Says:
Just wanted to point out that DNA can be obtained from other sources- such as skin, saliva, hair. There has been no mention by the police of where the DNA was found on the girl.
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Steverino Says:
Yuk. Even if whatever happened was consensual, the thought of that big oaf having anonymous sex with someone he just met screams pig. I hope he gets tested regularly for sexually transmitted diseases and infections. God knows how many women he might have infected.
And no, he has no pivate life. He is paid a hundred million to entertain us. We paid for the Rooney’s playground on the North Shore, which made it possible for them to make even more money and to pay Skippy his oodles.
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Dan (Not Onarato) Says:
Guilty or not…hes come a long way since his “Play for Jesus” days hasnt he?
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Amadi Says:
Some rape apologist here said:
If I put myself IN that position, then how much is MY responsibility for what happens to ME?
It’s irrelevant. If this girl was stark naked, bent over, showing all she’s got in the world and shaking it in everyone’s faces that still gives no one any excuse or indemnification for putting their hands on her (let alone anything else) without consent, period. No matter how lacking in common sense any woman may be, no matter how outrageous her behavior the line is drawn when actions occur without consent. Continually harping on what she may or may have done is rape apology. It is focusing on the wrong person: the only one who has to answer for their actions in a rape situation is the rapist, not the victim.
Sit and think about that, because all of this “she shouldn’t have” and “she was foolish” (and oh my lord @JenEngland you were in your own damned house you did nothing wrong why are you letting anyone blame you?!) is nonproductive, water-muddying, rape apology nonsense. Stop it.
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toni Says:
Stan Says:
March 9th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
“Sex happened! Sex happened in the bathroom!”Hey toni, how the heck do you know what happened in the bathroom…if anything at this point? Were YOU there? Are you an investigator working on the case? Didn’t thin so!
Roethlisberger admits sexual contact with accuser…
Stan, we’re not laughing with you…we’re laughing AT you.
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bucdaddy Says:
Amadi,
So she bears zero responsibility for her own behavior, health and well-being?
Everyone here thinks Bennie should have been smart enough to stay home. If he partied at home, this wouldn’t have happened. So … Are you saying young women are too stupid to grasp that concept too?
Why is this so hard? If you don’t want to take a chance getting run over by a train, don’t walk on the damn tracks. You might get away with it 999 times …
Technically, yes, “If this girl was stark naked, bent over, showing all she’s got in the world and shaking it in everyone’s faces that still gives no one any excuse or indemnification for putting their hands on her (let alone anything else) without consent, period.” You’re absolutely right. She ought to be able to do that without consequence.
But you know what? Some creepy guys don’t get hung up on technicalities. Some creepy guys see you carry on like that, guys with low or no moral threshholds, they might think you ARE asking for it. And some creepy guys ought to go to prison for a long time.
Will that make the rape victim feel any better? I doubt it.
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H Says:
@ Toni – sexual contact, not intercourse. There is actually a difference. Maybe we’ll just laugh at YOU instead…
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That's Church » Random n’at Says:
[...] Whether or not he is charged … it changes nothing, not one thing about how I feel about this situation. [...]
